Scandinavian population boom?

I thought that corn had made it up their before that time, around the late 1300's just as Greenland was being depopulated.
I agree that it would be hard to grown in Greenland and Iceland, but what about Scandinavia? Does anyone know if thats possible?

Scandinavia, in fact, all of Europe, suffered from the little ice age around 1400-1800. So even if corn was introduced during the 14th century, it would probably die out during the little ice-age.... Just speculations.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Scandinavia, in fact, all of Europe, suffered from the little ice age around 1400-1800. So even if corn was introduced during the 14th century, it would probably die out during the little ice-age.... Just speculations.

Mais can grow in Denmark even inj those centuries the question is why, the reason we have adopted mais instead of common beets and turnips is because they're less labour intensive not because they have any advantage in our climate.
 
And, to introduce tatters in Europe, one needs Vinland (at least in form of established Newfoundland colony) to be around. Easly introduction of potatoes is going to drastically change Northeastern Europe, with Novgorod and Lithuania benefitting from it even more than Scandinavians, so Russian Finland and Lithuanian Estonia is at least as likely as Scandiwank.

Potato cultivation never expanded outside of the Andes region until the Spanish arrived in the 16th century. Even then, if Spain hadn't held the Netherlands at the time, it's likely that the potato might have remained a solely S. American crop until the 19th century, given that it's a plant that doesn't like high temperatures.
 

Redbeard

Banned
If the Baltic instead of turning into a battleground of rivaling states can be the internal communication way of a Union/Empire I think there is a good chance of much increased trade and a number of cities growing very big in the Baltic, incl. Scandinavian area.

In that context it really doesn't matter how much food can be produced in the close neighborhood, do as other trade intensive areas: let your smart people make a lot of money instead of plowing and buy food cheaply from the stupid peasants elsewhere...

IMO the Baltic/Scandinavian area could easily house double or even triple the number of people compared to OTL, but it first of all requires a very durable political stability in the area.

Regards

Steffen Redbread
 
Interesting, that must mean that the mais field I have seen this summer was a fatamorgana. Mais has the last 30 years more or less replaced turnip and beet (with the exception of sugar beet) in Denmark.
Well, did it ever occur to you that there're reasons of such late introduction, as benefits of corn are many and obvious. I suspect the main reason is spelled M-O-N-S-A-N-T-O.

Potato cultivation never expanded outside of the Andes region until the Spanish arrived in the 16th century.
Yes I know, but with Vinland colony being there, there's a slim possibility of introduction (Newfoundland is an area of high-risk agriculture, so any raiding party from there which ends up in Peru, tough but not impossible task, would likely bring tubers back).
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Well, did it ever occur to you that there're reasons of such late introduction, as benefits of corn are many and obvious. I suspect the main reason is spelled M-O-N-S-A-N-T-O.

No it's bwenefits in northen climate isn't obvious, the reason it was introduced was simple, it was easier to harvest with machines than turnips, and it mostly used for the same animal fodder.
 
No it's bwenefits in northen climate isn't obvious, the reason it was introduced was simple, it was easier to harvest with machines than turnips, and it mostly used for the same animal fodder.

And it really made a breakthrough in the early 1980's during the recession and because of a bad grain harvest!
The first testing of corn in Denmark seems to have been made in 1907-09 but really catched on post-WWII which intensified in the decades before the breakthrough in 1981.
 
In that context it really doesn't matter how much food can be produced in the close neighborhood, do as other trade intensive areas: let your smart people make a lot of money instead of plowing and buy food cheaply from the stupid peasants elsewhere...
This is exactly how Novgorod lost to Muscovy. Everything was fine and dandy, they (Novgorodians) were buying bread from Russian interior to feed their traders and craftsmen and racking up insane profits selling Russian wares to Hansa and Western wares (and cheaper locally-produced copies) to Russians. It all went on and on until one industrious princely family (Dukes of Moscow) gained control over bread-supplying areas. At this moment Novgorod was doomed. All following events (battles between Muskovites and Novgorodians, siege of Novgorod and such) were little more than grand posturing and both sides knew it. Dukes of Moscow ruled over Novgorod by controlling it's access to food long before they ruled over Novgorod through their appointed governors.

No it's bwenefits in northen climate isn't obvious
Which pretty much kills POD of "corn agricultural revolution in Scandinavia", isn't it? Besides, one more fodder crop (even very successfull) isn't a game changer in medieval economy. What mattered than was what humans could eat, not cattle. You can keep cattle and sell cheese and buy food grain today. You couldn't do it in medieval times.

Edit: I was thinking of "medieval potato" TL for a good long time, as tatters greatly change power balance in medieval NE Europe, giving Northerners cheap and abundant source of starch (as an added bonus, it is extremely resistant to raiders, you can't burn a potato patch the way you can grain field). It would greatly affect not only Scandinavia but also Novgorod, Prussia, Northern Germany, Great Duchy of Lithuania.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Which pretty much kills POD of "corn agricultural revolution in Scandinavia", isn't it? Besides, one more fodder crop (even very successfull) isn't a game changer in medieval economy. What mattered than was what humans could eat, not cattle. You can keep cattle and sell cheese and buy food grain today. You couldn't do it in medieval times.

Yes I agree with on that point, beside that mais is primary useful in warm areas where cereal doesn't thrive. While it's a nice plant the fact that it hasn't replaced cereal in Europe do tell us something about it usefulness in Europe.

Edit: I was thinking of "medieval potato" TL for a good long time, as tatters greatly change power balance in medieval NE Europe, giving Northerners cheap and abundant source of starch (as an added bonus, it is extremely resistant to raiders, you can't burn a potato patch the way you can grain field). It would greatly affect not only Scandinavia but also Novgorod, Prussia, Northern Germany, Great Duchy of Lithuania.


Likely it would shift the centre of Europe to the north, and make the Baltic Sea into a lesser Mediterranean Sea. If it introduced early we could see the states of the area turn into the dominant forces of Europe just as it did later in OTL.
 
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