Scandinavian Defence Union?

So,

What is your opinion how it would have been affected if Scandinavian countries,
Norway and Sweden, together with Finland, Denmark and Iceland, had established
the Nordic Union in 1920's?
Solely for defence purposes, but military alliance anyway, and not a really
so-called super-power.
But anyway, at the end of 1930's when the war broke out, could there be any
changes?
What is your opinion how these two guys, Hitler and Stalin, would react to
this? Would the Finnish Winter War or Invasion of Denmark be little different?

(Sorry my bad english, I haven't use it for weeks)
 
Well, it's not going to exist for WW1 since the idea only came about as a result of WW2, that is the aforementioned Nazi occupations of Denmark,
the Soviet War of Aggression against Finland and general negativity.

Now, to have it form two conditions must be met;
1. NATO does'nt take off, or is much slower.
2. Sweden does'nt give a damn about what the Soviets think.


Assuming the aforementioned conditions are met it'd likely develop into a common military pretty quickly, one that would be nuclear as their would
be more funds for military projects.

Aside from the military dimension their would likely be an EU like organization forming pretty quickly, one that would be much, much more close
and integrated than the European Union is today, possibly to the point of full unification by the modern day.
 
Well, if the Nordic countries did manage to form such a defensive union, despite the problems it faced, and other European matters remain on an OTL course, then I'd assume Stalin would not make the ultimatum that led to the Winter War. The Nordic countries may not even make a Great Power, but it would still be a more risky conflict, especially given that the pan-Nordic participation would make France and Britain more likely to give aid to Finland- and to top it off, such a defensive union would make Finland a bit too obviously unlikely to accept the ultimatum.
Hitler, though... well, I wouldn't put it past him to attack Norway and Denmark even with the union, but so long as the Swedish ore keeps flowing, he might be talked out of it (part of the reason for the invasions of Denmark and Norway was to secure the transportation of Swedish ore to Germany, after all, and this NDU would be a more credible deterrent to the Allies than any of the Nordic countries alone).
Well, it's not going to exist for WW1 since the idea only came about as a result of WW2, that is the aforementioned Nazi occupations of Denmark, the Soviet War of Aggression against Finland and general negativity.
Actually, the idea was floated in the OTL Interwar period, so you'd be wrong there.
 
I meant on a serious level.
Well, yes and no. Yes in that fairly high-level politicians had the idea. No in that it had a far better chance of getting adopted after WW2 (one of those politicians I mentioned lost his ministerial post because he publicly mused that a Nordic Defence Union wasn't all that bad an idea).
Still, that is somewhat different from
the idea only came about as a result of WW2
, no?
 
Well, yes and no. Yes in that fairly high-level politicians had the idea. No in that it had a far better chance of getting adopted after WW2 (one of those politicians I mentioned lost his ministerial post because he publicly mused that a Nordic Defence Union wasn't all that bad an idea).

I'm skeptical it would have been taken truly seriously before the late 50's without WW2.


Still, that is somewhat different from , no?

Indeed, that's what I get for writing something, re-writing part of it, then re-writing everything else without paying attention.
 

Oddball

Monthly Donor
I'm skeptical it would have been taken truly seriously before the late 50's without WW2.

It was very seriousley considered among the Nordic countries in the interwar period.

But the usual difference in that Norway was almost an British client state and Sweden was rather pro German, meant that the negotiations had little hope of beeing successfull.

A pact only against Soviet could have had higher chances of success, but the pacifict nature of atleast the Norwegian government at the time, made also this option little realistic... :(
 
It was considered seriously at the political level in the Nordic countries in the interwar period.
Danish PM and FM did ask the other countries of their opinion on it and as said their opinions didn't make it a Danish option.

The perception of the enemy was too diverse - Denmark and Norway wieved Germany as the enemy but Norway didn't want to support Danish defences.
Sweden wanted Finland as part of it but both saw the Soviet Union as the major threat which Denmark didn't and so didn't want Finland in.
Sweden didn't mind defending Denmark if it could do it in Scania!
 
The perception of the enemy was too diverse - Denmark and Norway wieved Germany as the enemy but Norway didn't want to support Danish defences.

What Germany did they see as an enemy? What about the Northern union idea surfacing prior to 1933 or even prior to 1929. Did Denmark and Norway see Germany as an enemy back then?
 
What Germany did they see as an enemy? What about the Northern union idea surfacing prior to 1933 or even prior to 1929. Did Denmark and Norway see Germany as an enemy back then?

Germany as a nation or political unrest spilling over from Germany was seen as a threat before 1933.
German claims for North Sleswig (Southern Jutland) after the reunification in 1920 was a major concern for danish military and politicians from 1920 to after WWII.

Some of the Jutland Division warplans before 1933 were against "armed gangs" or likewise trying to reunite North Sleswig with Germany.

AFAIK the danish viewed Germany as the major threat and as a secondery threat UK action againt Northern Jutland or the Port of Esbjerg. UK action or the threat of UK action would be followed by a German invasion.
 
What Germany did they see as an enemy? What about the Northern union idea surfacing prior to 1933 or even prior to 1929. Did Denmark and Norway see Germany as an enemy back then?

Even during WWI the perception of enemies were different in the Scandinavian countries and YES even then, even before 1929 Germany was considered the only possible enemy by Denmark.

The interwar years prior to Hitlers assuming power was only regarded as a peaceful pause in Danish-German relations.
 

Cook

Banned
A Scandinavian Defence Union, of Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland may have given Stalin pause and prevented the Winter War of 1939.

And may have been enough to deter the British from laying mines in Norwegian waters in 1940.

Consequently the Germans would not have had any reason to try an invasion. Hitler may have wanter to take Scandinavia anyway but this would have been a much bigger undertaking then Norway and Denmark were in OTL, and that campaign taxed Germany’s airborne and sealift capability to it’s limit.

A lot would depend on how cohesive the Union really was and also how cohesive it was seen to be from outside.
 
Top