Scandinavian alliance 1939
- Thread starter fockewulf
- Start date
To get this you'd need much bigger butterflies, going back to the 1910's if not earlier for anything like this to happen. As it stands, the Norwegians didn't have much of a military and were reliant on neutrality for protection, not armed forces. The Swedes had a larger military but if they're off trying to help the Finns' then there's not much to spare to defend Norway.
Yes they can, and it is something of an alternative history line I have been thinking about.
Finland could have done this in the OTL as well.
And the thing to do is:
Loudly and clearly say that all Soviet citizens and soldiers can become citizens in Scandinavia / Finland.
In the OTL many people did not like the Stalinist system and when the Axis invaded they were greeted with open arms, and then the oppression and extermination started.
During the winter war, the Soviets did not initially give their soldiers winter uniforms, many did not have any tents and there were possibly no winter tents at all. The Soviets initially did not have skis or snowshoes which made travling across the snow difficult and energy consuming in addition to the cold.
During the winter war the Finns would attack field kitchens with hit and run attacks with skis, which not only lowered morale but also forced many soldiers to spend time on warming food or dying because the lack of it. This tactic should be expanded and to include tents and other things that help against the weather.
With no food, freezing temperatures, Stalinist oppression and constant death, many soldiers will be open to defection.
If done properly Scandinavia / Finland can even expand perhaps taking the whole Kola peninsula and maybe even Leningrad and possibly taking over the whole of the USSR.
Finland could have done this in the OTL as well.
And the thing to do is:
Loudly and clearly say that all Soviet citizens and soldiers can become citizens in Scandinavia / Finland.
In the OTL many people did not like the Stalinist system and when the Axis invaded they were greeted with open arms, and then the oppression and extermination started.
During the winter war, the Soviets did not initially give their soldiers winter uniforms, many did not have any tents and there were possibly no winter tents at all. The Soviets initially did not have skis or snowshoes which made travling across the snow difficult and energy consuming in addition to the cold.
During the winter war the Finns would attack field kitchens with hit and run attacks with skis, which not only lowered morale but also forced many soldiers to spend time on warming food or dying because the lack of it. This tactic should be expanded and to include tents and other things that help against the weather.
With no food, freezing temperatures, Stalinist oppression and constant death, many soldiers will be open to defection.
If done properly Scandinavia / Finland can even expand perhaps taking the whole Kola peninsula and maybe even Leningrad and possibly taking over the whole of the USSR.
They can inflict huge damage and it's possible to take Leningrad and perhaps large parts of the USSR but the whole USSR? No way in hell. If the Germans couldn't do it, nor can the Scandinavians. Even Sweden during the Great Northern War never took all of Russia.
You both miss the primary argument.
People are allowed to become citizens in Scandinavia / Finland.
In the OTL the Axis were greeted with open arms, until the oppression started and the exterminations.
In this scenario however people are given equal rights, the right to become a citizen and away from the Stalinist system.
If enough soldiers defect, and continue to defect then the USSR can fall because they can never draft enough soldiers since so many are defecting, and not only that the USSR is losing territory and the people living there are willing to become citizens in Scandinavia / Finland, those forces that do not defect are destroyed both by the elements and enemy action. And yes it is uncertain if they can take the whole of the USSR but it is possible.
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But those soldiers have families. And the families of deserters are in big trouble.
It depends on several factors.
How fast does the red army collapse.
How will you know who has turned sides
Going after the families may hasten the collapse.
Going after the families requires men, men that could be used at the front.
If the front collapses fast, some Scandinavian / Finnish soldiers may simply jump into a car, drive to Moscow shoot Stalin and declare the people free before Stalin can do anything about it.
But they couldn't. The whole population of the Nordic countries was c. 18 million. The USSR had c. 170 million, or nearly 10 times the population.
The Nordic economy would likely collapse if they suddenly needed to take care of more than, say, a million Soviet citizens and soldiers, let alone tens of millions or more. This would also be made worse by the restrictions the war placed on foreign trade. Food, etc, needed to be rationed even for the existing population, and the margins were very small between coping, so and so, and something very much like famine. To help put things into perspective, during the Continuation War IOTL, Finland could not properly feed the 64 000 Soviet POWs it captured, and this led to heavy mortality in the POW camps in 41-42.
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Of course they can.
If 1 million soldiers switch sides, then the USSR will fall, just drive to Moscow and shoot Stalin.
Now to manage the USSR as they switch sides, to give the people food, security and governance would be difficult, but not impossible.
Large parts of the USSR economy was still agricultural, so if people switch sides, they stay and work on the farms which, if handled properly, will produce more food, especially when people are allowed to make money for themselves, and you can fire people. The whole agricultural sector will improve by just removing Trofim Lysenkos influence and "Lysenkoism", he is responsible for so many deaths.
They can also ask for aid from the USA, the British and the French, who might help some. Negotiating with south american countries, using loans / aid, would also help alleviate the food situation.
It all depends on how it is handled.
If "only" 1 million in total switch sides a mix of soldiers and civilians and no land is gained, then Scandinavia / Finland will require loans and aid to handle that, or even have to, with help, ship those people to other nations.
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