Savoy Holy Roman Empire

I'd have to ask when exactly would be the starting point? The Savoys are a pretty old family--it's completely possible that with the right combination of marriages and inheritances they could wind up pulling a Hapsburg. (Arguably, even more plausible than the Hapsburgs doing it, actually.) But the further down the OTL you go, the more unavoidable Hapsburg hegemony becomes, at which point it become unlikely, and then practically impossible.
 
I'd have to ask when exactly would be the starting point? The Savoys are a pretty old family--it's completely possible that with the right combination of marriages and inheritances they could wind up pulling a Hapsburg. (Arguably, even more plausible than the Hapsburgs doing it, actually.) But the further down the OTL you go, the more unavoidable Hapsburg hegemony becomes, at which point it become unlikely, and then practically impossible.

The POD would be early 15th century.
 
Okay. Not completely impossible.

Early 15th century, the head of the house would be Amadeus VIII, who was elevated from Count of Savoy to Duke of Savoy. (Knowing the history of the titles 'Count' and 'Duke' makes this somewhat ironic, but that's really a sidetrack.) Amadeus was a powerful man in the Empire, a favorite of Emperor Sigismund, AND the last historical antipope, Felix V. (And yes, if you're wondering, he was married and had kids before he became "Pope". Look it was a funky time for the Papacy, okay?) So it's not completely inconcievable that he wind up HRE. Just... unlikely.

That said, you'd probably be better served going back a few generations, and having them get some German land...
 
Being elected Holy Roman Emperor is not the problem, Richard of Cornwall after all was was elected, taking the throne and keeping it is something else altogether.
 
Early 18C, if Charles VI predeceases Josph I, and his daughter married the Savoyard Crown Prince. No idea if she would, though.

Indeed, if the Habsburg monarch was a 12yo girl, they might elect Savoy anyway as a "caretaker".
 
I went for a 13th/14th Century accession in my Angevin rough TL

Basically Philip of Savoy marries his stepson Otto Count Palatine of Burgundy to his great niece Anna Dauphine of Vienne (Guigues VII's wife is Ct Peter II of Savoy's daughter) and wills Savoy to them.

Otto "The Grand Dauphin" marries the daughter of the Hohenstaufen King of Arles/HRE as part of the usual imperial marriages and his son later inherits the Kingdom and is later elected.


What you need to get a Savoy Dynasty as opposed to a single Emperor is a german powerbase, alliances with the Electors, and money.
Recreating Arles served my purposes to some extent - I was helped in that the Electorships weren't yet set in stone and there wasn't a Hohenstaufen interregnum.

For 15th Century your best bet may be to have Amadeus somehow gain the Kingship of Bohemia...
 
Actually--not so hard. Just have Louis of Savoy marry Elizabeth of Bohemia.

Boom.

Well except that she's an heiress when they'd marry so Louis would be low down in the list of prospective Kings.
Instead lets have her older halfbrother survive (let's say his mother dies in childbirth rather than him being premature) until after she is safely wed and has born children to Louis.
 
Okay. Not completely impossible.

Early 15th century, the head of the house would be Amadeus VIII, who was elevated from Count of Savoy to Duke of Savoy. (Knowing the history of the titles 'Count' and 'Duke' makes this somewhat ironic, but that's really a sidetrack.) Amadeus was a powerful man in the Empire, a favorite of Emperor Sigismund, AND the last historical antipope, Felix V. (And yes, if you're wondering, he was married and had kids before he became "Pope". Look it was a funky time for the Papacy, okay?) So it's not completely inconcievable that he wind up HRE. Just... unlikely.

That said, you'd probably be better served going back a few generations, and having them get some German land...

I agree, that it is a sidetrack, but I'd like to know what you mean by that. In the Holy Roman Empire and France the title of duke generally is more prestigious (in the East Frankish kingdom the stem duchies were the most important) than that of count,. There are some exceptions on this 'rule' like the counties of Toulouse (and theoretically West Frankish until the 12th century Barcelona), Flanders, Holland, which arguably were just as important as some duchies. So I wonder, what you mean by that.

As for the original question I suggest an early POD during or before the great interregnum.
 
The titles originate in the Late Roman Empire. 'Dux' were local military 'leaders' given control over areas of land to gather troops. 'Comes' were 'companions' of the Emperor--his right hand men. Generally speaking, Comes were higher and more prestigious than Dux--but somehow along the way, that got swapped.
 
The position and title of duke, also has a Germanic heritage, the dukes or what would become Herzog (in German), hertog (in Dutch) etc. (Heer is a German word for army); originally were the military leaders of the Germanic tribes, especially of tribes without a king.
Later they were the military leaders in the kingdom of the Franks (the Western part ultimately became France and the Eastern part developed in the HRE), also in the areas of the tribes conquered by the Franks (in the east these would develop into the stem duchies).
 
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