Saving the German Monarchy in 1918

The death of Tsarina Elisabeth in the Third Silesian War was regarded as the first miracle for House of Hohenzollern and Brandenburg-Prussia, it allowed the ascend of Peter II - a Prussian admirer - to the throne of Russia and thus breaking the Austro-Russian alliance.

Could with some possible twist, not only the Hohenzollern but all German dynasties received it second miracle with Wilhelm II intervening at the last minute before Operation Michel is launched and then proceed to offer an armistice to the Entente? With new relocated divisions from the Eastern front now available for use in the Western Front for defense and not used for any offensive was it still possible for the Germany to have a reasonable Armistice without triggering a revolution as happened in OTL?

Loss of Alsace-Lorraine or perhaps the destruction of major German High Seas Fleet capital ships and a reasonable war reparation as an exchange for peace is still reasonable in this proposal as long as the German Monarchy is saved. By this hopefully all monarchies are saved, from the micro-principalities of Schaumberg-Lippe, Wolfenbuttel until major states such as Saxony or Bavaria and Prussia itself.
 
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A revolution will come however it can easily fail. Chancellor Friedrich Ebert for example was a Monarchist, even though he was a Social Democrat. If the republic isn't declared by the republican SPD member Phillip Scheidemann (as it happen rather spontanously OTL) or by a similiar politican the monarchy has quite a big chance of survival, even when everything prior to the 9th November 1918.
 

abc123

Banned
The death of Tsarina Elisabeth in the Third Silesian War was regarded as the first miracle for House of Hohenzollern and Brandenburg-Prussia, it allowed the ascend of Peter II - a Prussian admirer - to the throne of Russia and thus breaking the Austro-Russian alliance.

Could with some possible twist, not only the Hohenzollern but all German dynasties received it second miracle with Wilhelm II intervening at the last minute before Operation Michel is launched and then proceed to offer an armistice to the Entente? With new relocated divisions from the Eastern front now available for use in the Western Front for defense and not used for any offensive was it still possible for the Germany to have a reasonable Armistice without triggering a revolution as happened in OTL?

Loss of Alsace-Lorraine or perhaps the destruction of major German High Seas Fleet capital ships and a reasonable war reparation as an exchange for peace is still reasonable in this proposal as long as the German Monarchy is saved. By this hopefully all monarchies are saved, from the micro-principalities of Schaumberg-Lippe, Wolfenbuttel until major states such as Saxony or Bavaria and Prussia itself.

But, if german Monarchy survive, would that lead to rise of Hitler? And would he become the Chancellor or dictator then?
 
Hitler is definitely gone. IIRC a lot of the report he received from generals and industrials was because they believed he could be used as a tool to bring the monarchy back.

Not to mention that the butterflies this'll cause will definitely change Germany's internal political climate.

- Kelenas
 

Typo

Banned
You don't even need to go that far to save the monarchy.

In OTL the proclamation of the Republic was pretty much done on the spot by one or two people IIRC and on the fly, it's pretty easy to butterfly something else into the place
 
From what I've read from your responds, the revolution sounds very fragile that I wonder why Wilhelm II and other German monarchs abdicated quite fast in OTL. :confused:

However, considering that saving monarchy is viable I'm going to create a short TL. But before it I still need to gather more information from you guys. Like I said in the first post is it possible for Germany to have more reasonable peace treaty other than Versailles?
 

Typo

Banned
From what I've read from your responds, the revolution sounds very fragile that I wonder why Wilhelm II and other German monarchs abdicated quite fast in OTL. :confused:

However, considering that saving monarchy is viable I'm going to create a short TL. But before it I still need to gather more information from you guys. Like I said in the first post is it possible for Germany to have more reasonable peace treaty other than Versailles?
Probably not, Versailles was as lenient as it was going to go.

Wihelm II abdicated because the military basically wanted him to, the Republic though, was another thing altogether, after the abdication many people thought the crown prince would become Kaiser.

The Republic claim into being because

But revolution was in the air in Berlin. The capital was paralyzed by a general
strike. Down the broad Unter den Linden, a few blocks from the Reichstag,
the Spartacists, led by the Left Socialists Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht,
were preparing from their citadel in the Kaiser’s palace to proclaim a soviet republic.
When word of this reached the Socialists in the Reichstag they were
consternated. Something had to be done at once to forestall the Spartacists.
Scheidemann thought of something. Without consulting his comrades he dashed
to the window overlooking the Koenigsplatz, where a great throng had gathered,
stuck his head out and on his own, as if the idea had just popped into his head,
proclaimed the Republic! The saddle maker Ebert was furious. He had hoped,
somehow, to save the Hohenzollern monarchy.
Thus was the German Republic born, as if by a fluke
From The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
 
According to the book "Iron Kingdom" by Christopher Clark, Wilhelm abdicated in his capacity as Emperor of Germany, but not as King of Prussia. However, in the confusion, Prince Max Baden announced to the press that he had stepped down as both. When the world heard this, there was essentially no going back as Germany had (arguably) already lost the war on the western front at that point, and Wilhelm was no longer seen by the army as their leader.

However, it might have been possible for the Hohenzollerns to remain on the Prussian throne if one of his sons had not given up his titles (in OTL all of them did), and if he had the consent of the military, the Reichstag, and probably the Allies.
 

Anderman

Donor
According to the book "Iron Kingdom" by Christopher Clark, Wilhelm abdicated in his capacity as Emperor of Germany, but not as King of Prussia. However, in the confusion, Prince Max Baden announced to the press that he had stepped down as both. When the world heard this, there was essentially no going back as Germany had (arguably) already lost the war on the western front at that point, and Wilhelm was no longer seen by the army as their leader.

However, it might have been possible for the Hohenzollerns to remain on the Prussian throne if one of his sons had not given up his titles (in OTL all of them did), and if he had the consent of the military, the Reichstag, and probably the Allies.

If Wilhlem II wanted to that it wouldn´t work because after the constitution of the empire the King of Prussia had the presidency of the alliance/federation/confederation or however somebody translate the german word Bund and has the name german emperor. It was not a personal union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_German_Empire

german version of the constitution

http://www.verfassungen.de/de/de67-18/verfassung71-i.htm
 
Wilhelm always acted like a spoiled brat.
I think the monarchy could have saved, if Wilhelm acted once in his life like a adult and abdicted at least a week earlier.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Could with some possible twist, not only the Hohenzollern but all German dynasties received it second miracle with Wilhelm II intervening at the last minute before Operation Michel is launched and then proceed to offer an armistice to the Entente? With new relocated divisions from the Eastern front now available for use in the Western Front for defense and not used for any offensive was it still possible for the Germany to have a reasonable Armistice without triggering a revolution as happened in OTL?

The miracle you are looking for is Wilhelm II (or his successor) accepting the peace conditions given in Wilson's 14 Points speech and make peace with Russia accordingly. In early 1918, Germany was still strong enough to negotiate an even better peace than you mentioned. With a better military and diplomatic strategy and a lot of luck, Operation Michel might well have served as a bluff that the enteinte doesn't want to call.

Wilhelm always acted like a spoiled brat.
I think the monarchy could have saved, if Wilhelm acted once in his life like a adult and abdicted at least a week earlier.
"A spoiled brat" is an understatement. Therefore, I cannot imagine any reasonable moves on the German side unless he is removed from the throne. A fatal heart attack? An earlier revolution leading to his abdication in favor of his heir? Could a possible successor have stood up to the OHL and negotiated a reasonable peace?
 
The miracle you are looking for is Wilhelm II (or his successor) accepting the peace conditions given in Wilson's 14 Points speech and make peace with Russia accordingly. In early 1918, Germany was still strong enough to negotiate an even better peace than you mentioned. With a better military and diplomatic strategy and a lot of luck, Operation Michel might well have served as a bluff that the enteinte doesn't want to call.


"A spoiled brat" is an understatement. Therefore, I cannot imagine any reasonable moves on the German side unless he is removed from the throne. A fatal heart attack? An earlier revolution leading to his abdication in favor of his heir? Could a possible successor have stood up to the OHL and negotiated a reasonable peace?

I see, what others think of this peace scenario of Germany accepting Wilson's 14 points speech with Wilhelm II is somehow removed from the throne, enabling as far as I can see, a move towards peace that is far more reasonable than Versailles?
 
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