Saracens raid and sack Rome

A random thought generated by the "Crusaders sack Mecca" threads. So what if Muslims attacked and raided Rome during the Crusades?

Arabs managed to do it in the 800 something, so its not like its outside of their reach.
 
It's not like Rome wasn't sacked repeatedly since the fall of the Western Empire. I doubt there would be profound changes, to be honest.
 
I don't think it is possible, the fact that the crusaders could travel to the holy land suggests that they controlled the sea.
 
When during the Crusades? It certainly wouldn't be as easy as in the 800s, but about 1100, a lucky shot could still get through easily enough. Rome's better fortified than mecca, but the military capabilities are still limited to piss-poor, going by the experience of the emperors a little earlier. The question is why, since I can't think of any Islamic state with enough naval power projection and enough testosterone sloshing around to make this look like a good idea. Most Islamic states at the time were governed by people who had a clearer grasp of political realities.

Could the Almoravids be *that* crazy? I doubt it, but I don't know. The Ottoman vassals in the Maghreb might try for the glory, on a bad day, but that's not 'crusades' by the most generous definition.

Bad time slot.
 
Ok, my bad, i misunderstanding the OP (language problem, etc.)

But, i continue in the facts Christians didn't control Mediterranean sea during crusades.
The mightest fleets in XI are merchants ones, and if an islamic lord lunch all his naval forces in Rome, using rivalties in Italy, he can plunder the city.

Of courses the consequences would be rude for this lord, but it wouldn't appeal a large crusade : it would be just a revenge expedition against random point (or well fortified in a case of an agressive islamic power, or ever taken by a rival in a case of an isane fanatical islamic lord), without the prestige that Holy Land have.

It's crazy, insane, foolish, but doable.
 
When during the Crusades? It certainly wouldn't be as easy as in the 800s, but about 1100, a lucky shot could still get through easily enough. Rome's better fortified than mecca, but the military capabilities are still limited to piss-poor, going by the experience of the emperors a little earlier. The question is why, since I can't think of any Islamic state with enough naval power projection and enough testosterone sloshing around to make this look like a good idea. Most Islamic states at the time were governed by people who had a clearer grasp of political realities.


Your best shot would be some muslim privateer operating from Tunis or Algiers. Someone with more thirst for glory and gold than common sense. A muslim Raynald of Chatillon.
It's quite improbable that a head of state would ever allow an operation guarantee to provoke a retaliation.

Rome, though, was fortified and it's improbable that our pirate could raid more than the outskirts of the city. As for the troops defending the city, the episode concerning the emperor is a bad example, since the complicated dynamic of the events. I wouldn't consider them particularly bad.

The Ottoman vassals in the Maghreb might try for the glory, on a bad day, but that's not 'crusades' by the most generous definition.

Since we were discussing the 12th century, it would be a bit difficult to find an ottoman vassal :p. But maybe the byzantines would oblige...

In a later period is also improbable. If the barbary privateers never attempted, even when they were at the zenith of their power, ruling de facto the mediterrean, probably they never considered a possible expedition (or simply not worth the fuss).
 
I wonder what'd happen if they could hold Rome for a longer time (longer than a few decades).

Stuck right between the Lombard cities under the HRE and the Kingdom of Sicily... that would have to be an incredibly powerful Islamic invader. I doubt even the Fatimids or Mamluks could have pulled it off. If it workled it would fundamentally shift the political landscape of Italy and the dynamics of Western Europe. First question, who getthe pope?
 
Every anti-muslim catholic reading that comment will pop a blood vessel.

An Italian caliphate. Crusades to recapture Rome. A new capital for Christendom, Vienna anyone?

I'm Catholic, and that sounds incredibly interesting IMO, not at all bothered.
 
Well if memory serves of how the Third Crusade eventually came about, expect a reaction if Rome is successfully sacked by let's say a Muslim pirate operating out of North Africa, a Crusade would be called.
 
1)Are you a devout catholic?
2)Are you anti-muslim?

Thats basically the criteria for blood vessel popping. The anti-muslim bit being particularly important.

I'm far from devout and I don't mind Muslims whatsoever? I'd still love to see a Muslim Roman Caliphate despite the fact that the Holy Palace may be desecrated in the process. If it's around the time we're thinking of to the 1400s, then, rather then ignoring the fact that Muslims took Rome, I'd actually welcome it. The Popes of the time where.....rather horrendous.
 
I'm far from devout and I don't mind Muslims whatsoever? I'd still love to see a Muslim Roman Caliphate despite the fact that the Holy Palace may be desecrated in the process. If it's around the time we're thinking of to the 1400s, then, rather then ignoring the fact that Muslims took Rome, I'd actually welcome it. The Popes of the time where.....rather horrendous.

True, the Borgias spring to mind.

The comment about blood vessels popping was directed more towards the right-wing uber-catholics. The ones who shout about Eurabia and nuking Mecca.

The idea is quite intresting though.
 
True, the Borgias spring to mind.

The comment about blood vessels popping was directed more towards the right-wing uber-catholics. The ones who shout about Eurabia and nuking Mecca.

The idea is quite intresting though.

I thought that was more from Protestant Anglo-Saxons? I hear the Spaniards are VERY kind to their Muslims nowadays.
 
I thought that was more from Protestant Anglo-Saxons? I hear the Spaniards are VERY kind to their Muslims nowadays.

Right-wing Christains as a whole would get pissed of by that, I just narrowed it down to catholics for the sake of it. I was also thinking of a few guys I know on youtube, they're devout catholics (apparently).
 
Your best shot would be some muslim privateer operating from Tunis or Algiers. Someone with more thirst for glory and gold than common sense. A muslim Raynald of Chatillon.
Thats probably the best bet. Anyone have any ideas whether it could be successful? I doubt the Pope or anyone really, would be expecting it.
 
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