Sam Westwood's Hollywood

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by markedward, Sep 22, 2018.

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  1. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    Sure Jane Fonda's career in America is done but there's always Europe. Maybe she'll revive her career in the 80s with the French New Look folks, Italian art house or the British Film 4 era Directors.

    Also Sam Westwood meeting up with Dirk Bogarade at some point would be interesting.

    Good work.
     
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  2. markedward Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah. She'll do something. Jane is stronger than Jean and won't let it ruin her life.

    Re: Bogarde I do like Dirk Bogarde so that could happen.

    And Thank You! :)
     
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  3. vandevere vonhooligan

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    Speaking of Sams...

    Will Mr. Westwood ever meet Mr. Waterston? Or do they travel in entirely different circles?
     
  4. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    Dirk Bogarde is fascinating and surprisingly great actor so he would be an interesting fit for this timeline, other actors it would be interesting (and nice) to see at some point would be Franco Nero, Nancy Kwan and Saheed Jaffery (in some way).

    Also would Ken Russell's The Devils have the same production/reaction as it did in OTL, because that film is certainly be interesting to cover.
     
  5. markedward Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about Waterston yet. Right now they are in different circles.

    That said, Mr. Sam Westwood does work with Mr. Sam Elliott at some point. And there is a bizarre story years from the current timeline PoD involving Sam Sheppard and Sam Jones from Flash Gordon that needs fine tuned...
     
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  6. markedward Well-Known Member

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    I have been wanting to use actors who are from diverse backgrounds, so Nancy Kwan and Saheed Jaffrey could very well pop up. I like the Redgrave Sisters, moreso Lynn for some bizarre reason, so Franco Nero (I know he married Vanessa), could possibly pop up if I am able to make room for him. A lot of stuff is cast so it depends, really.

    I am not sure about that movie, likely it will be as IOTL. I do like what Ken Russell films I have seen and he is mentioned briefly at some point in regards to either Tommy or The Boyfriend. If a movie is not made in my TL it's mentioned. If it is made, there might not always be a mention. This is supposed to be a gateway to a whole alternate universe so something left out of Sam's story might wind up getting a mention in another one. It's just finding time to get the other stories told. :)

    Last time I went a little too trigger happy with the butterflies and it messed things up royally so I have to be careful. With Jane, it was easy to recast some of her roles, leave the European films in and always leave the possibility that she might get a chance to produce if someone in Hollywood is open to it (despite her past) or that she could have a career like Mimsy Farmer did IOTL. Other things I have to sort of weigh out before committing.
     
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  7. MatthewFirth Well-Known Member

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    Wait, I thought Peter O' Tooles Goodbye Mr Chips was a straight drama OTL, you turned it into a musical?
     
  8. markedward Well-Known Member

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    It was a musical. I love Petula Clark and Peter O'Toole but found it really hard to get into. Saw the original 1939 version as a kid and it was good.
     
  9. CobiWann Well-Known Member

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    I'm still trying to come to terms with Theresa Graves in Klute...that's some inspired ITL casting!
     
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  10. unclepatrick Well-Known Member

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    My wife loves Musicals and her three least favorite movie musicals all come from the 70's.
    Mame, Goodbye Mr Chips and Lost Horizon.
     
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  11. unclepatrick Well-Known Member

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    I also think that a great piece of casting.
     
  12. markedward Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys!
     
  13. markedward Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
     
  14. markedward Well-Known Member

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    I only like Auntie Mame from 1958. Couldn't get into the Lucille Ball version, though I think Judy would have done a great job as ITTL. Mr. Chips was on TV recently but it was hard to watch, and Lost Horizon I have no urge to ever see but it might come up later as a mention because Larry Kramer wrote the screenplay and The Normal Heart is a favorite of mine.
     
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  15. desmirelle director of admissions, brookview sanitarium

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    I want everyone to know that I improved Lost Horizons for an original run showing in Fort Greeley, AK. George (Michael York) is horrified that Maria (Olivia Hussey) has reverted to her true age after leaving Shangra-La and runs out of the cave into the snow and cold. George's brother Michael (Peter Finch) follows after him shouting "George! George! George!" Michael reaches the cliff George has run off of, the theater is dead silent (or asleep) and smart-ass me says, slightly louder than I intended: "George?" in a questioning voice and everyone starts laughing.
     
  16. markedward Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen 'Lost Horizon' but have heard horror stories about how bad it is. This made my night! XD
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  17. Threadmarks: The Dark (1969)

    markedward Well-Known Member

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    From the Podcast Talking Pictures with Nolan Hendricks and Harris Walker (Part One first episode, 7/16/2016)

    Nolan:
    This is Nolan Hendricks

    Harris: And I'm Harris Walker

    Nolan: Welcome to 'Talking Pictures'

    Nolan: In Part One of this episode, we're going to discuss the 1969 British horror film 'The Dark' [1]

    Audio of the original 1969 trailer for The Dark is played.

    Nolan: It's very much a proto-slasher movie.

    Harris: It had that vibe, yeah.

    I'll admit that 'The Dark' didn't reach my radar when it came out and I never watched it until you sent me the KL Studio Classics DVD of the film and told me we were gonna talk about it because I'd worked with Michael Armstrong, the director. Sam Westwood, my long-suffering second half--

    Both men laugh before Harris continues talking

    Harris: Sam had remembered Jill Haworth telling him back in the day that she was going back to England to make a film. Later on, he was much closer to Jill than Sal. It's too bad she's gone now, it would have been nice to have her here talking with us about the film.

    Nolan: Jill Haworth is definitely one of the best things about 'The Dark' and when I did my books on forgotten films, she was really nice to me. We did get the chance to chat about 'The Dark' because I'd wanted to cover it.

    Harris: I never understood why Jill didn't have a better career. She had some big breaks. Huge. This is someone who played Sally Bowles in the original Broadway production of 'Cabaret'.

    Nolan: She was very underrated. While this is a good movie, I feel like she should have been doing 'A' films after 'Cabaret'

    Harris: When Sal Mineo started directing in the late '70s, he would put her in his films. She had a supporting role in 'Trial' which you know, Sam and Carol Lynley starred in--

    Nolan: That was such a frightening side to Sam Westwood. In real life, he is nothing like that character.

    Harris: No. He's one of the kindest people you'll ever meet. It disturbed me to see him playing such an abusive...pig.

    By the time we started dating, Sal and Sam had developed more of a professional relationship as opposed to friendship. Again, Sam went into further detail in the documentary. I wasn't around when whatever happened happened. Sal was...Sal.

    Nolan: 'Trial' got held up--

    Harris: When Sal got stabbed, yeah. It was released about a year later than it should have been. Anyway--

    Nolan: Going back to 'The Dark', the other two names were pretty impressive; Ian Ogilvy, who later played James Bond after Roger Moore left the series is second billed, And of course--

    Harris: David Bowie!

    Nolan: 'The Dark' is also notable for being David Bowie's film debut.

    Harris: I met Bowie in the early '70s at Max's Kansas City, I...think. I only know we met because there was a photo taken (laughs)

    He was doing the Ziggy Stardust persona by then and I look sort of...dishevelled and vacant. It's quite the photo.

    Nolan: You did meet Bowie again later though--

    Harris: Later on in the '80s. I discussed directing a music video for him but it fell through. I was rather choked when he passed away recently.

    Nolan: I remember when you came into my life, one of the things we bonded over was our love for David Bowie.

    Harris: Yes we did!

    And I'm gonna be honest, the best thing about this movie was Bowie.

    Nolan: I feel like his presence did help beef the film up. As did Jill Haworth and Ian Ogilvy.

    Harris: I liked that they threw some cabaret scenes in for Bowie.

    Nolan: What intrigues me about the film is it was released right before the end of the 1960s when things turned sour. The Polanski murders, Altamont. Because it is so dark, it was like a harbinger of things to come.

    Harris: And Bowie playing a musician who--

    Nolan: Don't give away the spoilers, Harris! (laughs)

    Nolan continues

    I'll just say that Bowie's character fits in with the general mood of the last half of 1969. I think the film could have had a better run had it not been unfortunately released a month before the Polanski murders. From what I gather, Columbia sort of pulled it after the murders took place. They'd had a hit with 'Night Of The Living Dead' and it made sense that they would release something like 'The Dark'. While 'Night' was more gritty and a 'message movie'. 'The Dark' does remind me of the climate of the time. You could transplant it to Los Angeles and it would have been a lot like what was happening.

    Harris: Oh yeah. I was there. Everyone was scared shitless. Some of that was discussed in Sam's documentary. He was filming 'The Grifters' and I was staying at his place on the couch at the time of the Polanski murders because things had sort of taken a downturn with my career. I think he thought I'd be built in security. But, I was scared to death, we both were. I was walking around with a baseball bat. Sam's dad bought him a gun but I wasn't gonna use it--

    Nolan: It wasn't the simpler time people say it is. You know, when there is nostalgia for the '60s--

    Harris: I'm not sure if there was ever such a thing as a simpler time. Things are just less scary sometimes.

    Nolan: There is some interesting stuff about the production on 'The Dark'. AIP and Columbia were both interested. But AIP wanted Michael Armstrong to use Frankie Avalon or Fabian to play Chris, the Ian Ogilvy role.

    Harris: Good old AIP!

    Nolan: Columbia weren't going to interfere with the casting so Armstrong was able to cast Ian Ogilvy. He wanted an actress named Jane Merrow to play the role that went to Jill Haworth.

    Harris: As someone who made a film for AIP, I feel like it would have been a complete disaster in their hands. It would have been like Carnaby Street Beach Party Massacre! Hell-- (Harris laughs)

    Nolan: Americanizing Ogilvy's role would have resulted in serious miscasting. Frankie Avalon wasn't the worst actor, though--

    Harris: I have no ill will towards Frankie Avalon or Fabian. They just both had an image that I can't picture working in a horror film that takes place in swinging London. Maybe if they had done something like 'Food Of The Gods' or if the setting had been switched to California--

    Nolan: 'Food Of The Gods' was your own AIP horror film.

    Harris: Yes. For Burt I. Gordon. It got me on 'Mystery Science Theatre' (laughs)

    Harris continues


    AIP was bad for butchering films. It was a schlock factory. I don't remember making 'Food Of The Gods' because I was loaded the whole time. I just remember Ralph Meeker was in even worse shape. Wish I had more anecdotes about working with Ralph Meeker because 'Kiss Me Deadly' is a classic. He was good in that movie--

    Nolan: Jennifer Jones said it was a rough shoot but that she liked working with you.

    Harris: Which is generous because I don't remember working with her that time as I was a few cans short of a six-pack. Literally. I'm surprised there weren't more issues on set.

    Nolan: Going back to 'The Dark', Michael Armstrong has gone on record saying that AIP wanted several scenes rewritten. They wanted a part for Boris Karloff who would have been dead before the film was finally released, they also wanted a red herring written in, which Armstong says would have been an older ex-lover of the character played by Gina Warwick. They also wanted a drunken musical number set in a pub--

    Harris: All of that sounds dreadful. I worked with Michael later on and he was very protective of his material. I would suspect that is why. I mean if someone tried to screw up this vision you had it would make one become protective of future projects. I think Michael dodged a bullet there.

    [1] Tried to keep this in line with details about Armstrong's original vision for this film before AIP meddled with it. A lot of info about this film is available here.

    TheDark.jpg

    The Dark (TRIGON/COLUMBIA, JULY, 1969)

    DIRECTED BY MICHAEL ARMSTRONG

    SCRIPT BY MICHAEL ARMSTRONG

    MUSIC BY REG TILSLEY (With additional songs by David Bowie)

    PRODUCED BY TONY TENSER

    Cast

    JILL HAWORTH as SHEILA

    IAN OGILVY as CHRIS

    DAVID BOWIE as RICHARD

    MARK WYNTER as NIGEL

    CAROL DILWORTH as DOROTHY

    GINA WARWICK as SYLVIA

    VERONICA DORAN as MADGE

    RICHARD O'SULLIVAN as PETER

    JULIAN BARNES as HENRY

    CLIFFORD EARL as POLICE SERGEANT

    Plot (No Spoilers)

    In swinging London, a group of twenty-something friends are attending a dull party thrown by their friend Chris (Ogilvy) following a performance in a nightclub by cabaret singer Richard (Bowie, who performs "Silly Boy Blue" and "Love You Til Tuesday"). Richard suggests the group gather for kicks at a supposedly haunted mansion where he used to play as a child.

    They have fun exploring the mansion, even holding a seance before separating one by one by candlelight. While all the partiers are alone, one of them, Nigel (Wynter), is brutally stabbed to death. His body is discovered by the panic-stricken Dorothy, his date, and the others. Since some of them have criminal records, the group ringleader, Chris convinces them to leave the body far from the home and to pretend that Nigel left and no one knows where he went. They are all shaken by Chris' assertion that one of them must be the murderer.

    During the next few weeks, the survivors are possessed by tension and guilt, and after Nigel is reported missing, they are further shaken by questioning from the police.

    Dorothy calls the survivors together to ask to confess. However, Chris convinces them to return to the house to discover who among them is the killer before they all succumb to a gruesome death. At the mansion, Dorothy becomes hysterical, prompting several of the group to depart, leaving just Chris, Sheila, and Richard. One of the three is the murderer, but who--and why?

    *Thank You to @Guajolote for the poster!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  18. unclepatrick Well-Known Member

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    The 70 musical version, has poor songs and most of the cast can not sing. Jessica and I watch it once to see if it was as bad as it reputation. It was.
    Now I love the 30's version with Ronald Colman.

    Rosalind Russel is great in the 50's movie. And I seen good stage performances of the Musical version Mame.
    Judy can only do better than Lucy, in this Timeline.
     
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  19. markedward Well-Known Member

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    I can't picture Sally Kellerman being a particularly great singer. It seems like she made a ton of bad career choices after 'M.A.S.H.'

    Rosiland Russell was fantastic in 'Auntie Mame'. It's one of my favourites yet for some reason it's not in my collection.

    I feel like Lucille Ball was horribly miscast. She hasn't really come up here because I have read bits of 'That Wacky Redhead' which is probably one of the best timelines ever written and didn't want to compete with that.
     
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  20. markedward Well-Known Member

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    Also I checked and double checked in case. For some inexplicable reason, I have a bad habit of accidentally calling Michael Armstrong Curtis Armstrong. Booger from 'Revenge Of The Nerds' did not direct any British horror films in my TL as a teenager. Sorry if anyone is disappointed. XD
     
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