Saint Lawrence River - question

Daffy Duck

Banned
I've always been curious about this...

During the American Revolutionary War, why didn't the American's get or conquer the territory north of New England all the way to the Saint Lawrence River?

Seems to me that the river would form a natural barrier between the newly formed US and Canada.
 
I've always been curious about this...

During the American Revolutionary War, why didn't the American's get or conquer the territory north of New England all the way to the Saint Lawrence River?

Seems to me that the river would form a natural barrier between the newly formed US and Canada.

Because the St. Lawrence river is just about the worst border in the area. You can sail full blown warships of the period all the way up to Montreal, and owning Montreal and Quebec gives you complete control over the crossings and the ability to launch raids and attacks onto the South bank with impunity. Meanwhile capturing Quebec and Montreal, essential to being able to control the south bank, gives you control over the north bank and the whole province of Canada as well.

Now, there were attempts to conquer Canada in the WoI, both by Benedict Arnold and others, but they all failed abysmally.
 
Plus, the American population and power base was way south. Projecting force up lake champlain to Montreal is theoretically doable, but the US never really pulled it off.

Besides, the Brits can supply by sea, and even if the US managed Montreal, some fall, the Brits would surely take it back the next spring.

For the US to take Quebec City would be very very much harder. And the Brits can reinforce Quebec very easily, as that ports open most of the year.
 
Also, I don't think there's much of anything there. If the Americans are going to attack north, they're going to go after Montreal and Quebec City, which would give them control of the entire colony, not try and take a bunch of mostly wilderness. During 1775-1776, they were focused on winning the war, not extending their border a little bit.
 
Plus, the American population and power base was way south. Projecting force up lake champlain to Montreal is theoretically doable, but the US never really pulled it off.

Besides, the Brits can supply by sea, and even if the US managed Montreal, some fall, the Brits would surely take it back the next spring.

For the US to take Quebec City would be very very much harder. And the Brits can reinforce Quebec very easily, as that ports open most of the year.

The thing that nobody ever mentions about the Canadian campaign during the American Revolution is that if you want to take and keep the St. Lawrence River, you also need to take and keep Halifax, and Halifax sits in the shadow of a large and well built fortress which has commanding views of the city and the harbour, which is very big and extremely deep. Yeah, good luck with that.
 
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I've always been curious about this...

During the American Revolutionary War, why didn't the American's get or conquer the territory north of New England all the way to the Saint Lawrence River?

Seems to me that the river would form a natural barrier between the newly formed US and Canada.

Rivers (with the odd unnavigable exception) don't actually make good international/natural borders for a dozen reasons. You're just conditioned by rivers being used as borders between subnational units and rivers disuse in modern transport networks :p.
 
When my daughter was looking at colleges I took her to Halifax and we went to the Fort. The Fort and its army is most likely the reason that Nova Scotia stayed British. Much of the population was from Southern New England or their parents were.
 
Fort at Halifax

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Rivers (with the odd unnavigable exception) don't actually make good international/natural borders for a dozen reasons. You're just conditioned by rivers being used as borders between subnational units and rivers disuse in modern transport networks :p.

Quoted for truth. Rivers tend to make for a channel of cultural continuity on both banks (think of how the Rhine doesnt form the border between Germanic and Latin cultures)
 
I've always been curious about this...

During the American Revolutionary War, why didn't the American's get or conquer the territory north of New England all the way to the Saint Lawrence River?

Seems to me that the river would form a natural barrier between the newly formed US and Canada.

Instead of North to Montreal and Quebec or Northeast to Halifax, I always thought that the Patriots would have better luck in the West.

I developed a thread a few years ago that had the Patriots extending the Sullivan Campaign in 1779 to capture Fort Niagara and then Fort Detroit. With these two forts in hand, the British cede Upper Canada to the Patriots at the peace table after Yorktown.

Realistically, Fort Niagara could have possibly been taken with better coordination. More forces would have had to be sent west to capture Fort Detroit. Overall, providing logistic supplies to large forces in the 1770's was the real key to successful campaigns.
 
Instead of North to Montreal and Quebec or Northeast to Halifax, I always thought that the Patriots would have better luck in the West.

I developed a thread a few years ago that had the Patriots extending the Sullivan Campaign in 1779 to capture Fort Niagara and then Fort Detroit. With these two forts in hand, the British cede Upper Canada to the Patriots at the peace table after Yorktown.

Realistically, Fort Niagara could have possibly been taken with better coordination. More forces would have had to be sent west to capture Fort Detroit. Overall, providing logistic supplies to large forces in the 1770's was the real key to successful campaigns.

At the time there was no such thing as Upper Canada. That didn't come into existence until long after the war was over when the American Loyalists (roughly a third of the population) emigrated (if they could) to what is now Southern Ontario and western Quebec. At the time what would become Upper Canada was considered part of the Ohio territory and the only reason it remained British IOTL was because the French made it so. They wanted a point of contention between the British and Americans that would have made it easier to keep America a French ally since they feared that they would ally with Britain in the future due to almost all of America's exports going to them, even after and during the war.
 

katchen

Banned
If General Montgomery holds Montreal while leaving Quebec alone, the US can hold not only the Upper St. Lawrence River from the Lachine Rapids but the Ottawa Basin as well. Then Ethan Allan can do a John Rogers Clark and put together an expedition of Green Mountain Boys downriver to Moose Factory, Rupert House and Fort George on Hudson's Bay in 1777 or 1778, then on to Ft. Albany, Ft. Severn, York Factory and Churchill. That's how the new American Republic secures the West.
 
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