SA Revolution?

Well if he could get Hitler assassinated by some (supposed) conservative plot in 1933, he'd have the undivided loyalty of 4 million paramilitaries in a nation with only 100,000 regular soldiers. So basically he'd have to knock out the Gestapo (Goerings), SS (Himmlers) and the Junker Aristocrats (Hindenburg) alongside the Army to gain power as his more radical, dare I say sincere national-socialism would be completly anathema to the conservatives

It would certainly be bloody but I think he could pull it off as long as it was short and sharp. A drawn out civil war for example would tempt foreign intervention
 
Well, the SA didn't have any problems with fighting commies, but I sincerely doubt they would be as willing to fight the army, and Von Hindenburg.
 
If they take over the government by pseudo-legal means (and Roehm IIRC did hold a government appointment in 1933) then they would not necessarily have to FIGHT the army

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
then they would not necessarily have to FIGHT the army

That may be a bit of an academic point. The army basically ended up saying to Hitler 'you've got the chose between the SA and us.' Rohm's desire to create a 'folk-army' and bring on 'brown bolshevism' was inevitably going to result in some kind of rumble with the regular army sooner or later. Rohm may not have to fight the army immediately, but I don't remotely say them staying as chums in perpetuity.
 
That may be a bit of an academic point. The army basically ended up saying to Hitler 'you've got the chose between the SA and us.' Rohm's desire to create a 'folk-army' was inevitably going to result in some kind of rumble with the regular army sooner or later. Rohm may not have to fight the army immediately, but I don't say them staying as chums in perpetuity.

True, what I meant was that to get into power he's not going to have to call out the army onto the field of battle and defeat it.

Once in power, political tensions are going to rise and it will be a question of whether there will be an army coup against him

Sometimes I know what I am talking about inside my head, but I don't know whether it ever comes out right...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
So lets say he comes into power, what exactly will he do? lots of people give vague descriptions about him and his beliefs, but they never give anything concrete.
 
Remember that under Hitler, Germany developed a semi-planned economy with all its inefficities und flaws.

Roehm, tending to have more socialist viewpoints than his buddy Adolf, would certainly go in the same direction. I'm pretty sure he would - if taken power - go for dispossession on a national scale. That is what he proposed in earlier years.

This hard line would surely lead Germany to rup up a score, even if Roehm decides to skip the whole "let's rearm and kick asses" business.
Which he may be won't, regarding the fact that Roehm was also a staunch supporter of Germany's calling to reign over other peoples and all that stuff.

Either way, Roehm would cluster debts and will have to find a way to pay them or make them insubstantial. This means war, and WWII sees a German lunatic with too many dangerous toys. Sounds familiar to me:p
 

King Thomas

Banned
If the army and SA fight the army would kick SA butt as the SA had no heavy weapons and no proper training compared to the army. Quality would beat quantity.
 
The SA had no real chance. The Wehrmacht would have stepped in, and defeated them. Even if ASBs make Roehm successful over Hitler, there's still the issue of the SS (if they existed at the time) and the Wehrmacht. My money's on the Wehrmacht.
 

bard32

Banned
could Rohm have revolted against hitler and taken over the National Socailist Workers party?

He did. Ernst Rohm was in open revolt against Hitler. He wanted the SA,
Sturmarbeitlung, (Storm Troopers,) to be the army of the Third Reich, under
the NSDAP's banner. In short, he wanted to get rid of the Reichwehr, Germany's military under the Weimar Constitution, and make the SA the party
army, not unlike the Red Army.
 
He did. Ernst Rohm was in open revolt against Hitler. He wanted the SA,
Sturmarbeitlung, (Storm Troopers,) to be the army of the Third Reich, under
the NSDAP's banner. In short, he wanted to get rid of the Reichwehr, Germany's military under the Weimar Constitution, and make the SA the party
army, not unlike the Red Army.
Just because Röhm's views about the SA did not correspond with Hitler's, doesn't mean Röhm was in open revolt against Hitler.
So no, Röhm was never in open revolt against Hitler.

And it's not Sturmarbeitlung, it's Sturmabteilung, literally meaning Storm Section.
 
Did Röhm share Hitler's Aryanism and genocidal hate for certain peoples?
I don't know, but he did have a vicious hatred for communists, although he himself advocated a more socialist approach to the German economy.

He was also openly homosexual (which was against the law), so maybe his hatred for people who were different was less than the other nazi's.
 
The German army was outnumbered roughly forty to one. The SA had more combat veterans than the army. Please remember, this is only fifteen years after every able bodied male in Germany had carried a rifle.
By 1939 the Army would eventually have beaten the SA because the army was much larger, the SA had lost most of their people to the Army and the SS, and the army now had armor, artillary, aircraft, etc.
In 1934? No contest.
Now if the Army/Conservatives had enrolled the socialists and communists in their alliance and attacked the SA, they would have won. The Nazis were outnumbered seven to three in the best election they ever had.
 
The German army was outnumbered roughly forty to one. The SA had more combat veterans than the army. Please remember, this is only fifteen years after every able bodied male in Germany had carried a rifle.
By 1939 the Army would eventually have beaten the SA because the army was much larger, the SA had lost most of their people to the Army and the SS, and the army now had armor, artillary, aircraft, etc.
In 1934? No contest.
Now if the Army/Conservatives had enrolled the socialists and communists in their alliance and attacked the SA, they would have won. The Nazis were outnumbered seven to three in the best election they ever had.
As I mentioned before, you can't just compare numbers here.

A lot of the SA members were former army, and a lot of them looked up to Von Hindenburg.
While they had no problems whatsoever with killing commie's (which is why they signed up in the first place), I doubt they would be willing to kill regular army soldiers, or rise up against von Hindenburg.
 
Wrong.

Within the SA, you had strong proletarian elements, angry at everything which seemed to be "upper-class".

The Wehrmacht with its snobby prussian officers was indeed considered a rival on the road to total power in Germany by many many SA-men.

Remember that there were even clashes between SA and SS, and they belonged to one organisation.

Finally, after January 30th 1933, Roehm's SA called for a "second revolution" to fulfill "true" national socialism. After getting rid of communists and social-democrats, they wanted to fight conservative elements still holding some power. One of them certainly was the Wehrmacht.
 
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