Russo-Indian invasion of Pakistan

Khanzeer

Banned
With the KSA/Pakistan and CIA supporting the afghan terrorists, and the ISI supporting the sikh terrorists in the 80s.It would have been only natural for the Indians and soviets to take joint action against pakistan.

.Their major objective would be to destroy the madrassas and the pak military training camps in NWFP.

The locals chiefs have never been entirely happy with the punjabi dominated pak army in the region if the soviets bribe the right leaders and do not push the socialistic agenda then they can get some genuine support amongst the locals against pak army.

Plus they can raise the issue of durand line, a soviet equipped afghan army is not attacking to fight another muslim country but to erase the durand line the hated partition of pukhtoon homeland by britishThey will make clear they have no designs on rest of pakistan

Plus the balochis ( another ethnic minority ) just recently rebelled against pak army in 70s allegedly with soviet help.

Indians have already had experience in fighting in kashmir for decades with aircover and pak army distracted by the soviets they would have no problem in securing the rest of kashmir and gain a strategic advantageous position in Punjab.Indian navy could easily blockade karachi and stop whatever help pakistan may get from its arab friends.

Allies- Many in the Arab world,KSA and UAE would be expected to offer the most help

regional allies China, how much it will do to actively help pakistanis is questionable

iran already occupied with iraq and no friend of zia anyway

USA : ?? military aid to pak increased substantially but how well can pak use it in such a short term.They will threaten the soviets but if will they risk WW3 over peshawar ? not likely

Objectives of indians/soviets

Indians : to occupy the pak administered kashmir and strategic areas

Soviets to do the same in the frontier province of pakistan formerly known as NWFP/FATA ostentasiously to satisfy the territorial dispute in favor of afghans.But main reason is to destroy the military infrastructure of pak army there.

They do have local allies, late ZA Bhutto's son Murtaza runs a terrorist outfit determined to overthrow Zia and is at odds with the military establishment

pak nukes are of tactical value only, can be delivered only by aircraft and no major soviet cities within range.

If the soviet/indian forces stay out of the major population centers of punjab/sindh there would be no reason why the pak generals would feel forced to use the nukes.And if they do the allies would have the perfect excuse to totally obliterate pakistani military and economic capability

end by 1986

1-india takes azad kashmir

2-Afghan army with soviet support takes FATA areas and starts a anti-punjabi feeling in rest of NWFP with a almost civil war state with paksitan airforce driven from the air by mass airstrikes on their bases there and its major army units hammered by soviet airforces.A pushtoon nationalist govt is formed there that declares independence from pakistan and alliance with afghanistan.

3-Parts of Balochistan with soviet help become no-go areas for pak army and a huge insurgency starts there

4-USA threatens war if soviet/afghans cross the indus or if indians cross the punjab boundry and fighting dies down.Big insurgencies in NWFP and balochistan remain

5 pakistani rump state is too weak to support any of their own insurgencies and with so many military units destroyed in kashmir and NWFP the pak army is much weaker
 
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The locals chiefs have never been entirely happy with the punjabi dominated pak army in the region if the soviets bribe the right leaders and do not push the socialistic agenda then they can get some genuine support amongst the locals against pak army.
No because atheist orthodox invaders.

Plus they can raise the issue of durand line, a soviet equipped afghan army is not attacking to fight another muslim country but to erase the durand line the hated partition of pukhtoon homeland by britishThey will make clear they have no designs on rest of pakistan
No pakistan will still smash a soviet equipped afghan army and then say socialist and raise the religious bell. Also so what its pakistan and population support pakistan this will be condemned internationally.

Indians have already had experience in fighting in kashmir for decades with aircover and pak army distracted by the soviets they would have no problem in securing the rest of kashmir and gain a strategic advantageous position in Punjab.Indian navy could easily blockade karachi and stop whatever help pakistan may get from its arab friends.
This is straight up soviet imperialism the west will move against this they will supply pakistan.

Soviets to do the same in the frontier province of pakistan formerly known as NWFP/FATA ostentasiously to satisfy the territorial dispute in favor of afghans
Watch afghanistan collapsed they cant keep afghanistan under control how will they keep pashtunistan which has more pashtuns than Afghanistan and then the rest of pakistan from not causing chaos.

regional allies China, how much it will do to actively help pakistanis is questionable
China two biggest enemies china will help and might even threaten intervention on india.

Plus the balochis ( another ethnic minority ) just recently rebelled against pak army in 70s allegedly with soviet help.
Theres more baloch in karachi than in balochistan and they hate afghans more than the government.

Allies- Many in the Arab world,KSA and UAE would be expected to offer the most help
Arabs flood the oil market destroying soviet revenue.

If the soviet/indian forces stay out of the major population centers of punjab/sindh there would be no reason why the pak generals would feel forced to use the nukes
Expect for the fact Pakistan is being invaded.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
islam amongst pushtoons is a nominal force kinship more than anything else is what determines loyalty

with full soviet air support pak army has no chance of smashing anything, plus they already are playing the religious card to the max by that time

karachi loyalty to state is already suspect, MQM will probably support india anyway
esp in the mid-80s
 
islam amongst pushtoons is a nominal force kinship more than anything else is what determines loyalty
Yes thats why theres a massive separatist movement.... no there no pashtun pakistani see them selfs as pakistani. Also no only the tribal region is has the kinship stuff majority are settled people who are pakistanis. This point means nothing. This is like saying latinos would be more loyal to mexico if it invaded usa.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Yes thats why theres a massive separatist movement.... no there no pashtun pakistani see them selfs as pakistani. Also no only the tribal region is has the kinship stuff majority are settled people who are pakistanis. This point means nothing. This is like saying latinos would be more loyal to mexico if it invaded usa.
no thats apples and oranges
pushtoons even in karachi after generations hate muhajirs and punjabis they would side with afghan pushtoon in a heartbeat
 
no thats apples and oranges
pushtoons even in karachi after generations hate muhajirs and punjabis they would side with afghan pushtoon in a heartbeat
To what destroy the nation. Also no they don't Pashtun are not repressed people your just making stuff up. Seriously punjabis would side with afghan invader to destroy there country? Where is the logic in this?

Also stop making stuff up where are these race riots then?
 

Khanzeer

Banned
To what destroy the nation. Also no they don't Pashtun are not repressed people your just making stuff up. Seriously punjabis would side with afghan invader to destroy there country? Where is the logic in this?

Also stop making stuff up where are these race riots then?
do we really need to go into the history of lingustic and ethnic strife in pakistan esp karachi ?

ok i think you should relax and not get so emotional

you stated your opinion and I gave mine
 
do we really need to go into the history of lingustic and ethnic strife in pakistan esp karachi ?
Kinda because your making points that make no sense as that doesn't matter. Islam is more important to pakistani pashtuns than Afghanistan thats why pakistanis joined mujahideen. Also afghan again stands no chance a army that not well trained, inferior leadership smaller demoralised is going against pakistan military which is one of pakistan most stable organisation.

Also yes as your entire point is secretly pakistan wants to destroy itself. So please provide the evidence that punjabis want to destroy Pakistan.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
its the "alternate history" forum , we are all "making stuff up"

afghans are good mercenaries so they will join any movement for money , religion was never a big motivating factor


punjabis are NOT trying to destroy pakistan in my timeline, balochi and pashtun nationalists are

Thanks for your input
 
afghans are good mercenaries so they will join any movement for money , religion was never a big motivating factor

punjabis are NOT trying to destroy pakistan in my timeline, balochi and pashtun nationalists are
Thats why they lost the war to the mujahideen. Balochis hate afghans they are pushing the hardest for a fenced border.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Thats why they lost the war to the mujahideen. Balochis hate afghans they are pushing the hardest for a fenced border.
er no they lost as soviets stopped paying the bills of the communist army and saudi-US money kept flowing via pakistan
its all beans and bullets man
 
it would be hard fought i must say both punjabis and pushtoons are great fighters
One has a strong military based on the british model with a good officer core. Soldiers known to fight hard. With modern weaponary equipment backed by the US, with the intelligence agency of the ISI. plus has a population reserve that even balcoh rebellion paksitan can still easily outnumber afghans. Theres a reason soviets only bombed and didn't invade it would be a train wreck it would require resources of full war.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
One has a strong military based on the british model with a good officer core. Soldiers known to fight hard. With modern weaponary equipment backed by the US, with the intelligence agency of the ISI. plus has a population reserve that even balcoh rebellion paksitan can still easily outnumber afghans. Theres a reason soviets only bombed and didn't invade it would be a train wreck it would require resources of full war.
SOVIETS had no interest in even invading afghanistan it was just paranoia of US led coup that forced them
and believe me they had no need or desire for any warm water ports , its just cold war propoganda
 
Pakistani Generals, many of whom in this era are from the NW frontier and the Army, for whom the Frintier is a major recruiting ground will not use nukes to save their country from losing more than half its territory...that’s totally ASB.
Nukes will be threatened and used. The Soviet’s know it. Most of Soviet C Asia and even parts of RSFR, like Novosibirsk are within range of PAF bombers.
The Soviet’s aren’t going to take the risk of losing multiple major cities to destroy Pakistan and get basically jackshit in return.
A client gets some more territory, but millions of Soviet citizens are dead....yeah that’s not a good exchange at all.
 

Khanzeer

Banned

Nukes will be threatened and used. The Soviet’s know it. Most of Soviet C Asia and even parts of RSFR, like Novosibirsk are within range of PAF bombers.


which ones a handful of f-16s and mirage III/5 ? when fizaya is engaged on two fronts in a battle for its own survival and its airbases constantly under attack ?
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Pakistani Generals, many of whom in this era are from the NW frontier and the Army, for whom the Frintier is a major recruiting ground will not use nukes to save their country from losing more than half its territory
no they will not , nukes are not a practical option there and PAF may try to take out kabul killing a lot of muslims
most likely they will threaten india with nukes
 
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