Russo-Indian invasion of Pakistan in 1985

If you read the scenario its just primarily about taking azad kashmir not occupying pakistan as a whole

A very bad idea, since Azad J&K is almost entirely Muslim and consists of Poonchi and Mirpuri people who are almost undistinguishable from the West Punjabi elite culturally and linguistically. Azad J&K is more loyal to Pakistan than even Sindh.

plus sikh extremists are a very small group infact the general who stormed the golden temple was sikh too

Irrelevant, since terrorist incidents were happening even as far as Haryana and Jammu and were killing thousands. Conquering Azad J&K would simply result in the entry of another ultra-resentful region while doing nothing to resolve the Punjab issue.
 

destiple

Banned
A very bad idea, since Azad J&K is almost entirely Muslim and consists of Poonchi and Mirpuri people who are almost undistinguishable from the West Punjabi elite culturally and linguistically. Azad J&K is more loyal to Pakistan than even Sindh.



Irrelevant, since terrorist incidents were happening even as far as Haryana and Jammu and were killing thousands. Conquering Azad J&K would simply result in the entry of another ultra-resentful region while doing nothing to resolve the Punjab issue.
Was there any militant potential in AZK ? did they have an organized militancy to resist indian forces

it would help by preventing funding and arming of sikh militants , with pak army on the ropes they will have no means to support them.
 
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destiple

Banned
of Poonchi and Mirpuri people who are almost undistinguishable from the West Punjabi elite culturally and linguistically.
and there is a HUGE history of people of same cultural and lingustic links fighting each other for the right price and motivation in the subcontinent
 
it would help by preventing funding and arming of sikh militants , with pak army on the ropes they will have no means to support them.

That's a small reward for getting involved in a worse insurgency in Azad J&K, which unlike Punjab doesn't have a massive Hindu minority.

and there is a HUGE history of people of same cultural and lingustic links fighting each other for the right price and motivation in the subcontinent

They have no reason whatsoever to go against Pakistan, especially when they're part of the elite. For fuck's sake, India would probably integrate them into Hindu-majority Jammu, forcing Poonch and Mirpur to interact with a people with a religion hated by them since the horrors of Partition.
 

destiple

Banned
That's a small reward for getting involved in a worse insurgency in Azad J&K, which unlike Punjab doesn't have a massive Hindu minority.



They have no reason whatsoever to go against Pakistan, especially when they're part of the elite. For fuck's sake, India would probably integrate them into Hindu-majority Jammu, forcing Poonch and Mirpur to interact with a people with a religion hated by them since the horrors of Partition.
using profanity is no way to buttress your argument, insurgencies do not develop overnight esp not w/o outside help.

but armored corps and aircraft can be destroyed in weeks and can take years if not decades to replace.Esp for a 3rd world country like pakistan.

in 1985 in punjab and haryana how much % were sikhs ? and how many of them took arms against indian govt ?
 
Wouldn't the Soviets be leery about hitting Pakistani bases (especially the large ones) given the likely presence of American trainers and advisers?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Pakistan is a failed state governed by the interests of terrorist radicals.
The whole region would have been peaceful had it been real.
You seem to think that this sort of nationalist insult is acceptable here. You were warned to cut this out three weeks ago.

Clearly another warning is pointless.

Kicked for a week.

Strongly suggest you refrain from these sorts of broad based attacks upon your return.
 
insurgencies do not develop overnight esp not w/o outside help.

On the contrary, they do develop. It's generally rare for insurgencies to overthrow a government without either that government being weak or outside help, but the Khalistan movement failed spectacularly. It also didn't develop quickly, and I would argue it was the consequence of Hindu-Sikh tensions as well as a radical movement within Sikhism.

but armored corps and aircraft can be destroyed in weeks and can take years if not decades to replace.Esp for a 3rd world country like pakistan.

So, if I get this straight, India's real goal here is to destroy Pakistani military equipment?

I would also dispute that it would take years to replace because of Pakistan's sheer fixation towards the military.

in 1985 in punjab and haryana how much % were sikhs ? and how many of them took arms against indian govt ?

Irrelevant. The fact was, a terrorist movement was killing thousands and Hindu-Sikh relations rapidly deteriorated. Fixing this issue is far more important than invading Pakistan with the help of a country which, again, India was very lukewarm towards.
 

destiple

Banned
Wouldn't the Soviets be leery about hitting Pakistani bases (especially the large ones) given the likely presence of American trainers and advisers?
good point
definately will prevent soviet attack if its an OVERT US presence like warships anchored in Karachi , or division of marines

but if its covert help or advisors I doubt if they care, afterall US advisors and soviet advisors get killed all the time

read chuck yeagers memoir his aircraft was shot up on the ground by indians in 1971
 

destiple

Banned
On the contrary, they do develop. It's generally rare for insurgencies to overthrow a government without either that government being weak or outside help, but the Khalistan movement failed spectacularly. It also didn't develop quickly, and I would argue it was the consequence of Hindu-Sikh tensions as well as a radical movement within Sikhism.

without beans and bullets , you just have a bunch of angry but scared civilians

So, if I get this straight, India's real goal here is to destroy Pakistani military equipment?
yes and first line military units trained fighting men , if all their armored and mechanized corps are badly mauled they will not replace them overnight

I would also dispute that it would take years to replace because of Pakistan's sheer fixation towards the military.
getting equipment is one thing but having troops trained on it and integrated with other services takes time.Even if equipment is "donated" by Gulf states and US , it will take time to reform and train these units and in the mean time Indians can redraw the LOC to suit them and present the pakistanis with a fait accompli.
Destroying pakistani infrastructure in a air campiagn like bridges , railways , roads esp in punjab would be a big plus as it will severely limit the mobility of pakstani mechanized units.The lack of support units and logistics will be a nightmare in a country like pakistan if all these are knocked out.Ofcourse this will hinder the attackers too but if they have modest goals as far as territorial gains then it should not be an issue.




Irrelevant. The fact was, a terrorist movement was killing thousands and Hindu-Sikh relations rapidly deteriorated. Fixing this issue is far more important than invading Pakistan with the help of a country which, again, India was very lukewarm towards.
Ok so a stat that goes against your case is always "irrelevent"
Yes you cut off the head of the snake esp when given a golden chance,plus most sikhs do not have any love for pakistan despite their hatred of hindu nationalists
plus have you forgotten " the enemy of my enemies ( china and pakistan) is my friend " even if fairweather one.
 
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