Russians In The New World
- Thread starter mspence
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- 19th century
Russian West Coast would probably have some clusters of Russian settlement and administration, while in most of the terrtory the Russian controll would be tenuous. Russian America would be centered on the coast and along rivers, while plains and flat land might also have a strong Russian presence. Amerindians would make up a larger percentage of the population than in OTL America, due to less settlers immigrating.
Well, OTL they had a settlement in Fort Ross until the 1840s. That's in what we know as Sonoma County. That area is known, of course, for being good wine country (introduced by the Spanish).
Now more settlement this far south would cause tensions with the British, the Spanish and later the Mexicans. Not only that, I don't think this butterflies away the migration of a lot of New Englanders to Northern California (they did so long before the Mexican-American War.) And that is likely to cause some tensions with a government that is theoretically autocratic, but very, very far away.
Am I the only one thinking the US might be tempted to "liberate" Russian America?
They had settlements in California. Mostly to supply settlements in Alaska with a food. They could not go further to any noticeable extent due to the shortage of people and complexity of the communications: it was faster to sail to Alaska across the Atlantic and then Northwards or bypassing Africa and then going through the Indian Ocean, etc. than by traveling by land. Ditto for carrying supplies and merchandise. Taking into an account a limited size of the Russian merchant fleet, the whole thing was quite limited.
From the economic point of view the goal was getting and selling furs from Alaska and Russian Pacific (the best market was China). Even CA settlement was a matter of a pure necessity: the settlers in Alaska had been dying from starvation because their food supplies had been carried across all Siberia and then by the sea and in CA they were mostly established with a purpose of growing some agriculture production for the settlements in Alaska and helping with sea otter trade (the only thing Russia was interested in on American coast). In other words, a meaningful Russian West Coast was both a technical impossibility and meaningless economically (by mid-XIX sea otter being almost extinct).
Kaliforniya...here we comeskaya...nyet from where we ver alveys from...
That relies on Russia having the naval capabilities to operate in the Baltic, Black Sea, Far East, and reach all the way to North America and defeat both the US and UK (the latter wants Russia's influence cut down as much as possible). Logistically, that's a nightmare and why they just sold Alaska in the first place (they couldn't defend it from Britain plus they wanted to drive a wedge between the British and Americans). Plus, getting settlers over there in numbers to be able to defend themselves is a bit hard, since the West Coast is on the other side of the Pacific, which is on the other side of Siberia, which itself is sparsely inhabited and lacks the infrastructure to transport people quickly and efficiently until the 1900s, long after the US would be applying pressure on the Pacific coast.
They discovered it in Siberia, which was closer.
True but California has a nicer climate
More gold does not hurt.They discovered it in Siberia, which was closer.
Well, it did hurt Spanish Empire by lowing its value.
But seriously, the area was too far and Russian resources too scare to make possession of the American territories into something noticeably bigger than it was in OTL without a help of the friendly ASB's who (as a minimum) would construct and maintain Trans Siberian Railroad in the early XIX century.
Not to mention they would have to deal with the New Englanders in Northern California (just as OTL they proved a pain in the ass for the Mexicans).
Too far from the heart of a country too poor to profit from it, period. You say: Britain went even farther, just look at Australia. But Britain was already an established colonial power, and sat straight on the temperate edge of the World Ocean. Russia was never a colonial power, but a pioneering land empire, hemmed in by frigid, often frozen seas that offered little. Serious, meaningful maritime expansion in the Pacific was well beyond its means when reaching the Siberian coast from Moscow required several months of travel - a feat in and of itself. There's reasons if the Pacific side of North America was basically the last area of the Earth, together with Australia and New Zealand, to be charted and later colonized. Logistics, overreach (the Spaniards never managed to fully grasp what was on hand there, basically without having to fear any serious resistance by the scattered bands of Native Americans).
Just as a really minor historical note, Kuskov brought the vines in from Europe, not Mexico. Not sure where Sutter's vineyards originated from (probably the same Russian ranchos).
I don't know much about the Mexican side of California as far as grapes went, but the Russian/American side had a different origin for the viticulture.
The entire history of Russian America was basically the Russians being outnumbered by ships and sailors from New England who were doing whatever they wanted without much ability by the RAC to resist. That said, in the early 19th c. Russian colonies at least had actual naval units frequently visiting and could build new ships as opposed to Spanish California/Mexico (Spain being busy with way too many other things, Mexico as well).
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Oregon and California are too distant for the Russian Empire to defend, and too valuable for the US and the UK to ignore. Knowing that both countries would LOVE to have the aforementioned territories, the Russian Empire would try to get the US and UK into a bidding war (which is what they hoped to do with Alaska). Selling the territories for a pretty penny would be good for Russia's strained budget in the mid-1800s.
Max Sinister
Banned
Unless maybe the Russians decided to swamp North America with all available cossacks AND ally with all available natives against them damnyankees. And even so, even if it happens during the Civil War... an alternate one, before the Oregon deal...