Russia attacks Posen instead of East Prussia in 1914

CaliGuy

Banned
What if Russia would have attacked Posen instead of East Prussia in 1914?

For the record, the logic behind this move would be to conquer Posen, Danzig, and Pomerania and thus to both cut off East Prussia from the rest of Germany and threaten Berlin.

How would such a Russian invasion have fared?
 
The Russian 1st and 2nd Armies were stationed in Poland and kept up to high strength in peacetime to ensure their rapid mobilisation and deployment in wartime. Where would they have been stationed in peacetime and could they have mobilised and deployed as quickly from those positions? Would German intelligence have been able to make educated guesses about the roles and objectives of Russian armies by their placement and make their own dispositions?

What about the locally mobilised German 8th Army? Could they advance from East Prussia and cut off these Russian Armies, leading to worse results than OTL Tannenberg?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Where would they have been stationed in peacetime

In the same location, no?

What about the locally mobilised German 8th Army? Could they advance from East Prussia and cut off these Russian Armies, leading to worse results than OTL Tannenberg?

If the German 8th Army is going to attempt an encirclement of the 1st and 2nd Russian Armies, shouldn't it do this with help from the German forces in Upper Silesia?
 
The most westerly Russian forces assembled at Novo.... fortress, quite a distance from the border especially compared to how close other Corps assembled. If the Russians intended to strike west of the Vistula they'd have to assemble their forces much closer to the border areas. I think the 1914 version of Plan 19 had the new 9th and 10th Armies assembling opposite the German Silesian border to advance due west.

maps_15_east_prussia1914_1.jpg
 

NoMommsen

Donor
From Warsaw to Posen it's about 270 km as the crow flies.

From the Vistula to the german border there were only two single-track railway lines, one leading to Kalizs, well south to Posen more into Silesia, and one towards Thorn ... Fortress-City Thorn.
While on the german side of the border were a tight-nit network of sinle and doubletracks line.

Who do you think might be more able to place this troops for a "battle of Posznan" ?

In Silesia, more lower Silesia, nearer to Posznan, there is Landwehr-Corps Woyrsch, quite capable reactivated commander of a force almost as powerfull as a regular Reserve Corps of the imperial army. At least well capable to hold off any russian forces, tired after some 200 km of marching until the 8th Atmy comes down in full force.
IMO a good receipt for an even more devastating defeat of the russians.
 
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The most westerly Russian forces assembled at Novo.... fortress, quite a distance from the border especially compared to how close other Corps assembled. If the Russians intended to strike west of the Vistula they'd have to assemble their forces much closer to the border areas. I think the 1914 version of Plan 19 had the new 9th and 10th Armies assembling opposite the German Silesian border to advance due west.

a

Plan 20 which was to go into effect in September 1914 had the 9th army deployed there. The Russians actually used a mix of plan 19 and 20

The tenth army is envisioned there about 1917 The Russians had many many plans and proposals but none of them projected an attack into Pozen without cleaning out East Prussia first
 
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