Russia and Turkey exchange Armenian and Muslim populations

It was the only somewhat humane way at least. To have expected the Ottomans to change their ways was like waiting for the proverbial leopard to change his spots.

African Americans in the US were literally slaves bred like cattle for centuries and yet the idea that mass ethnic cleansing of blacks is the only way to help them is rightly regarded as a monstrous absurdity nowadays. You really think that the OE is literally incapable of treating the Armenians better when even in OTL there were numerous wealthy Armenians in important administrative positions? When local elections where Christians voted had been held as early as the 1840's? When as late as the 1877-78 parliament, the Armenians won 3 of the Christian seats in Istanbul and the Greeks protested that the OE was favoring them for being the most loyal minority?

The Armenians experienced tremendous problems and oppression while living in the OE of course but you can't simply blame it on the Ottomans inherently being inclined to oppress Christians. That just ignores all the complexities and factors of actual Otto-Armenian relations in favor of a cartoonish nationalist narrative. You can't just paint all Armenians as the same and their suffering as the same throughout the entire OE throughout all of its history. Armenian suffering increased as the OE disintegrated for actual reasons. Western urban Armenians were much better off compared to eastern rural Armenians for actual reasons. By looking at things like these, we can figure out ways in which Armenians as a whole could achieve better lives. Stop promoting this idea that the horrors of ethnic cleansing are the only solution.
 
Going back to the OP it won't work simply because it would be a terribly stupid idea for Russia, geopolitically speaking. The opression of the Orthodox minority inside the OE morally legitimized any type of future intervention in the straits. Such population exchange would simply destroy the perfect causus belli.
 
What if...

Hear me out...

The Ottomans were the ones to propose such an exchange? They pull off some sort of smashing victory over Russia in the Caucasus, basically control the entire region, and then impose population exchanges to prevent Russia declaring war for them again? Sort of like what happened to Greece
 
What if...

Hear me out...

The Ottomans were the ones to propose such an exchange? They pull off some sort of smashing victory over Russia in the Caucasus, basically control the entire region, and then impose population exchanges to prevent Russia declaring war for them again? Sort of like what happened to Greece
I don't see the Turks defeating Russia by themselves.
 
Going back to the OP it won't work simply because it would be a terribly stupid idea for Russia, geopolitically speaking. The opression of the Orthodox minority inside the OE morally legitimized any type of future intervention in the straits. Such population exchange would simply destroy the perfect causus belli.
There would still be the Greek minority. And I can only laugh at fools who think the Ottoman Empire could have been reformed and that it could justly rule over Christians.
 
There would still be the Greek minority. And I can only laugh at fools who think the Ottoman Empire could have been reformed and that it could justly rule over Christians.

Do you think being contemptuous and insulting people with no reason given while not even being able to quote them directly makes you look better or worse in this thread?
 
There would still be the Greek minority. And I can only laugh at fools who think the Ottoman Empire could have been reformed and that it could justly rule over Christians.

I’ve heard that Anatolian Greeks were doing just fine in the Ottoman Empire right up until the late 19th century or so. Nationalism doomed the Empire, nothing inherent to the Ottoman state.
 
There would still be the Greek minority. And I can only laugh at fools who think the Ottoman Empire could have been reformed and that it could justly rule over Christians.

The empire ruled Christians just fine. The Greek and Armenian movements were purely nationalist, not religious. There were no issues with other Christian groups in the Empire.
 
I just don't see how what you're stating contract my points. If you care to clarify it precisely it'd be helpful.
They'e pretty self explanatory, there were Christians in other parts of the ottoman empire than just the Balkans and they had issues with groups other than just Christians look at Egypt.
 
They'e pretty self explanatory,

Okay, I guess.

there were Christians in other parts of the ottoman empire than just the Balkans

Who said that there weren't Christians outside the Balkans? The very OP is about an Anatolian minority.

and they had issues with groups other than just Christians look at Egypt.

In this particular case they had an issue with a rogue viceroy. Or are you claiming that Muhammad Ali was some kind of Egyptian freedom fighter?
 
Okay, I guess.



Who said that there weren't Christians outside the Balkans? The very OP is about an Anatolian minority.



In this particular case they had an issue with a rogue viceroy. Or are you claiming that Muhammad Ali was some kind of Egyptian freedom fighter?
A rebellious region is a rebellious region whether or not they were freedom fighters scarcely matters, the point the ottomans had Muslims give them trouble aswell and Christians that didnt.
 
A rebellious region is a rebellious region whether or not they were freedom fighters scarcely matters, the point the ottomans had Muslims give them trouble aswell and Christians that didnt.

How's this remotely related to what I said or the topic itself? There were constant massacres of Christians overlooked by the Ottomans everywhere from Lebanon to the Balkans and you're mentioning a rebellion by a rogue viceroy, I just don't see how there situations are related.
 
Could Russia at least take some tens or hundreds of thousands of Armenian refugees, after the Hamidian massacres? They could be settled in areas like Nakhicevan and Kars oblast, to have a Christian majority in these border regions.
 
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