Russia and E Europe w/o Mongols

The Russian state still degenerates for a time into local successors but the evolution of said successors may mean there are two of them and at least two cultural rivals: the Novogorod-Tver-Moscow region in the north, and the Ruthenia region in the West. Russia may in fact become in this sense an equivalent to the concept of united Germany or Italy.......
 
The Russian state still degenerates for a time into local successors but the evolution of said successors may mean there are two of them and at least two cultural rivals: the Novogorod-Tver-Moscow region in the north, and the Ruthenia region in the West. Russia may in fact become in this sense an equivalent to the concept of united Germany or Italy.......

Except those were fairly modern ideas, brought about by a concept of nationalism that is unlikely to develop exactly as per OTL here.
 
Except those were fairly modern ideas, brought about by a concept of nationalism that is unlikely to develop exactly as per OTL here.

Italy might be, given the gap between north and south, but the idea of uniting all the squabbling German states seems harder to eliminate from the minds of the ambitious and confident.
 
Except those were fairly modern ideas, brought about by a concept of nationalism that is unlikely to develop exactly as per OTL here.

Sure, in a long-term construct, but Russia had some greater degree of centralized identity than seen elsewhere in Europe. Muscovy did not make a single centralized empire out of a vacuum.
 
The Russian state still degenerates for a time into local successors but the evolution of said successors may mean there are two of them and at least two cultural rivals: the Novogorod-Tver-Moscow region in the north, and the Ruthenia region in the West.

Wasn't Ruthenia part of Hungary at the time of the PoD? Or am I wrong?

Though I can see both Tver and Moscow being far more curbed TTL, and remaining part of Novgorod's sphere of influence. Actually, talking of any emerging "Russian" identity, is it possible Novgorod might come to identify more with her Scandinavian neighbors than with the Principality's to her south?
 
Wasn't Ruthenia part of Hungary at the time of the PoD? Or am I wrong?

Though I can see both Tver and Moscow being far more curbed TTL, and remaining part of Novgorod's sphere of influence. Actually, talking of any emerging "Russian" identity, is it possible Novgorod might come to identify more with her Scandinavian neighbors than with the Principality's to her south?

It became part of Hungary later. IMHO the most likely outcome is a rather more complicated history of Eastern Europe with at least a two-point rivalry: Western-Rus v. Northern-Rus. This to some extent would reflect the ultimate evolution of OTL of Germany from a rivalry between the Prussians and the Habsburgs. The one benefit whoever'd win has is geographically it's relatively simpler to unite Rus than it was to unite Germany.
 
Top