Run First
- Thread starter Israel
- Start date
Dellums must not be good with Cuban voters, I’m a bit surprised to do that well.
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Yeah, I can't imagine Cuban voters liking Dellums that much, since many of them immigrated to the US due to Socialism
I haven't considered that, I can change the figures if you guys want
Chapter One Hundred and Forty Four
(I was having trouble writing the domestic/economy debate, so I decided to start off with the foreign/defense debate)
"By a flip of a coin, it has determined that President Buckley will go first--Mr. President, you have two minutes to give your opening statement."
"Yes, thank you--under the watch of the previous Administration, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, installed a Communist regime in Nicaragua, and established itself as the dominant military power in the world. Under the watch of this Administration, we have rebuilt the Armed Forces and restored our military strength. We and our allies removed that regime in Nicaragua, and the activists of guerilla groups in Central America have been halted. This Administration has stopped the spread of Communism, and with the support of the people we intend to continue this struggle."
"Thank you, sir--Senator Dellums."
"Thank you very much--President Buckley talks about Communism, but he does not talk about liberty. Many of the nations whom past Administrations and the present Administration have allied with are run by despotic and tyrannical regimes--Chile, Argentina, Guatemala, to name a few of those who participated in the invasion of Nicaragua. I do not condone the activities of the Soviet government, but I believe that a foreign policy based upon humane and just principles can bring peace in the modern world. And if we care about our nation's future, we must bring peace."
"Senator, thank you. Now, Mr. President, the first question goes to you--relations between the United States and South Africa have soured since 1981. While many support your stance against the pro-Apartheid government of Prime Minister Hartzenberg, this means that your Administration has no clout to effect change in that country. Does your Administration have plans for changing the status quo?"
"Well, I do believe that we need to continue to encourage the South African government to take some sort of action as to ending racial discrimination in their country. It has led to the sort of violence that has caused much suffering among both whites and blacks in that country, and has isolated them further in the international community--I believe the present course is the best way."
"Senator Dellums?"
"Mr. President, you supported the South African government when you entered office, and only when Ferdinand Hartzenberg seized power and fed off of anti-Western backlash ahead of the general election did you even consider the possibility of putting pressure on their Government to take action on the matter of racial desegregation. You never supported ending Apartheid so long as it failed to interfere with your goals."
"Senator, quite frankly, I resent that accusation. It was always a clear goal of this Administration to end Apartheid. We made it clear to Prime Minister P.W. Botha that we desired to see fundamental changes in his country, and that those changes would play the largest factor in course of the relationship between my Administration and his. It was Prime Minister Hartzenberg who rejected any overtures for reconciliation on this topic."
"If you cared about ending Apartheid, Mr. President, you would have demanded that this Congress enact sanctions. You would have severed ties yourself. You would not have waited until your ally fell from power! You would have done something to end the constant brutality of Apartheid! You would have done something to prevent the continuation of this perverse system of discrimination!"
"Senator, I'm sorry, I'll need to cut you off there--our next question is directed at you. There have been concerns that you would not be adequate in dealing with the Soviet Union and it's satellite states--your calls for universal disarmament of all nuclear arms, significant withdrawal of American troops from Europe and an overall defense budget cut of 25 percent are the reasons. What is your response?"
"I have said before and I will again that I am not naive about Secretary General [pyotr] Demichev, his own strategy. I think that I am not naive at all when I conclude that the Soviet Union has more internal problems to consider than potential expansion, and the threat of a war between N.A.T.O. and the Warsaw Pact can be easily reduced if we took action based on this fact. America can be much safer if we open the possibility of round-table taks."
"President Buckley."
"The Soviet Union does have internal problems, yes--but that does not mean that a noted hardliner, Mr. Demichev, will take them into account. He has suppressed moderate voices in the Soviet government--those that have supported the sort of disarnament talks that Senator Dellums has spoken of--and has no intention of making the world a better place to live in."
"Mr. President, Demichev has changed the doctrine of the Soviet Armed forces to emphasize compactness and readiness, not indicative of a long-term offensive strategy. He may speak tough, but in the end, if we open up the possibility of ending the senseless waste of resources into nuclear arsenals, then he will be receptive, and the goal of ridding the world of these arms can be met."
"The 'compactness' policy is not one of readiness, Senator, but one of efficiency. It has been built not as a result of any attempt at ending offensive expansion, but rather at perpetuating such doctrine where unending amounts of manpower and firepower may not be what is needed in the battlefield. The fact of the matter is he is not a realist, of any sort but rather a tyrant."
"President Buckley, the Nicaraguan invasion was the focal point of your foreign policy doctrine so far. It was a massive success for the Administration and was seen as a vindication of your policies. Elections are scheduled in Nicaragua for only a few months from now, and the presence of United States military forces in Nicaragua has ended for the most part. What lessons should be taken from this?"
"I think the lesson is that--while strategic doctrine of one power is not unchanging--in the modern battlefield the Soviet Union has no choice but to follow the strategy it has adopted in Vietnam and Nicaragua--supporting the Communist regime in that state, so as it then arms and trains the Communist organizations in countries in the region. We liberated Nicaragua, we ended the terror elsewhere in Central America, and brought some peace in the America's."
"Thousands of American soldiers have died in Nicaragua, Mr. President--brave men, who loved America and all that it stood for. Their country did not come under attack, and yet they were sent to this country two and a half thousand miles away to remove a government installed--with popular support--after years of tyranny under the Somozas' private rule. We cannot allow more of these wars to take place or else more families, more soldiers will pay the price."
"The Sandinistas were not at all more democratic than the Somoza regime before them--they did not hold elections, they confiscated land and property, they jailed and tortured opponents of their regime. They did not give their people an avenue towards dignity and freedom--and what we, and other allies did, was give their people dignity and freedom."
"But that's exactly--like I said earlier--the nations whom we ourselves allied with are not democratic, but ruled by despots. We cannot purport to be the defenders of human freedom when we are arming, training, and trading with regimes who commit the crimes to which you have pointed out the Sandinistas committed. If we are to become what we believe ourselves to be, then we must actually stop helping these dictators."
"Senator, in the world we have an option--we can support these dictators and thus be in a strong position to force them to reform and give their people their freedoms. Or we can allow their nations to fall to Communism, and be in no position to pressure those regimes to make change. Our world is not one where we can have only either tyranny or either democracy, but rather than deny this reality we can work within it and thus create one that will, if God is willing, be the one that it is not."
"By a flip of a coin, it has determined that President Buckley will go first--Mr. President, you have two minutes to give your opening statement."
"Yes, thank you--under the watch of the previous Administration, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, installed a Communist regime in Nicaragua, and established itself as the dominant military power in the world. Under the watch of this Administration, we have rebuilt the Armed Forces and restored our military strength. We and our allies removed that regime in Nicaragua, and the activists of guerilla groups in Central America have been halted. This Administration has stopped the spread of Communism, and with the support of the people we intend to continue this struggle."
"Thank you, sir--Senator Dellums."
"Thank you very much--President Buckley talks about Communism, but he does not talk about liberty. Many of the nations whom past Administrations and the present Administration have allied with are run by despotic and tyrannical regimes--Chile, Argentina, Guatemala, to name a few of those who participated in the invasion of Nicaragua. I do not condone the activities of the Soviet government, but I believe that a foreign policy based upon humane and just principles can bring peace in the modern world. And if we care about our nation's future, we must bring peace."
"Senator, thank you. Now, Mr. President, the first question goes to you--relations between the United States and South Africa have soured since 1981. While many support your stance against the pro-Apartheid government of Prime Minister Hartzenberg, this means that your Administration has no clout to effect change in that country. Does your Administration have plans for changing the status quo?"
"Well, I do believe that we need to continue to encourage the South African government to take some sort of action as to ending racial discrimination in their country. It has led to the sort of violence that has caused much suffering among both whites and blacks in that country, and has isolated them further in the international community--I believe the present course is the best way."
"Senator Dellums?"
"Mr. President, you supported the South African government when you entered office, and only when Ferdinand Hartzenberg seized power and fed off of anti-Western backlash ahead of the general election did you even consider the possibility of putting pressure on their Government to take action on the matter of racial desegregation. You never supported ending Apartheid so long as it failed to interfere with your goals."
"Senator, quite frankly, I resent that accusation. It was always a clear goal of this Administration to end Apartheid. We made it clear to Prime Minister P.W. Botha that we desired to see fundamental changes in his country, and that those changes would play the largest factor in course of the relationship between my Administration and his. It was Prime Minister Hartzenberg who rejected any overtures for reconciliation on this topic."
"If you cared about ending Apartheid, Mr. President, you would have demanded that this Congress enact sanctions. You would have severed ties yourself. You would not have waited until your ally fell from power! You would have done something to end the constant brutality of Apartheid! You would have done something to prevent the continuation of this perverse system of discrimination!"
"Senator, I'm sorry, I'll need to cut you off there--our next question is directed at you. There have been concerns that you would not be adequate in dealing with the Soviet Union and it's satellite states--your calls for universal disarmament of all nuclear arms, significant withdrawal of American troops from Europe and an overall defense budget cut of 25 percent are the reasons. What is your response?"
"I have said before and I will again that I am not naive about Secretary General [pyotr] Demichev, his own strategy. I think that I am not naive at all when I conclude that the Soviet Union has more internal problems to consider than potential expansion, and the threat of a war between N.A.T.O. and the Warsaw Pact can be easily reduced if we took action based on this fact. America can be much safer if we open the possibility of round-table taks."
"President Buckley."
"The Soviet Union does have internal problems, yes--but that does not mean that a noted hardliner, Mr. Demichev, will take them into account. He has suppressed moderate voices in the Soviet government--those that have supported the sort of disarnament talks that Senator Dellums has spoken of--and has no intention of making the world a better place to live in."
"Mr. President, Demichev has changed the doctrine of the Soviet Armed forces to emphasize compactness and readiness, not indicative of a long-term offensive strategy. He may speak tough, but in the end, if we open up the possibility of ending the senseless waste of resources into nuclear arsenals, then he will be receptive, and the goal of ridding the world of these arms can be met."
"The 'compactness' policy is not one of readiness, Senator, but one of efficiency. It has been built not as a result of any attempt at ending offensive expansion, but rather at perpetuating such doctrine where unending amounts of manpower and firepower may not be what is needed in the battlefield. The fact of the matter is he is not a realist, of any sort but rather a tyrant."
"President Buckley, the Nicaraguan invasion was the focal point of your foreign policy doctrine so far. It was a massive success for the Administration and was seen as a vindication of your policies. Elections are scheduled in Nicaragua for only a few months from now, and the presence of United States military forces in Nicaragua has ended for the most part. What lessons should be taken from this?"
"I think the lesson is that--while strategic doctrine of one power is not unchanging--in the modern battlefield the Soviet Union has no choice but to follow the strategy it has adopted in Vietnam and Nicaragua--supporting the Communist regime in that state, so as it then arms and trains the Communist organizations in countries in the region. We liberated Nicaragua, we ended the terror elsewhere in Central America, and brought some peace in the America's."
"Thousands of American soldiers have died in Nicaragua, Mr. President--brave men, who loved America and all that it stood for. Their country did not come under attack, and yet they were sent to this country two and a half thousand miles away to remove a government installed--with popular support--after years of tyranny under the Somozas' private rule. We cannot allow more of these wars to take place or else more families, more soldiers will pay the price."
"The Sandinistas were not at all more democratic than the Somoza regime before them--they did not hold elections, they confiscated land and property, they jailed and tortured opponents of their regime. They did not give their people an avenue towards dignity and freedom--and what we, and other allies did, was give their people dignity and freedom."
"But that's exactly--like I said earlier--the nations whom we ourselves allied with are not democratic, but ruled by despots. We cannot purport to be the defenders of human freedom when we are arming, training, and trading with regimes who commit the crimes to which you have pointed out the Sandinistas committed. If we are to become what we believe ourselves to be, then we must actually stop helping these dictators."
"Senator, in the world we have an option--we can support these dictators and thus be in a strong position to force them to reform and give their people their freedoms. Or we can allow their nations to fall to Communism, and be in no position to pressure those regimes to make change. Our world is not one where we can have only either tyranny or either democracy, but rather than deny this reality we can work within it and thus create one that will, if God is willing, be the one that it is not."
I think Buckley came out on top on all the issues apart from South Africa. Foreign policy is not Dellums' strong suit especially on the issue of nuclear disarmament, though we'll see how he does in domestic policy
Gentleman Biaggi
Banned
Dellums-esc candidates like Bernie Sanders, Gore Vidal, and Bobby Seale* win seats in downballot races
*I may or may not have just spoiled some of my TL
Chapter One Hundred and Forty Five
"Senator Dellums, the American economy has seen a recovery from the recession which President Buckley has inherited from President Jimmy Carter--in the last few years, the economy has expanded, inflation has fallen, and millions of Americans are once again employed. Why should voters not entrust President Buckley with a second term?"
"President Buckley likes to talk about those things--expansion and prosperity--but those words are just words to people in the cities or on the farms, people without security, people who have to get up everyday knowing that if anything happens, then they would have nowhere to turn. President Buckley has neglected the needs of the American working class, and he has abandoned the American working class!"
"Senator... Senator, that's simply not true. The middle class has grown considerably thanks to the policies we have implemented. New jobs have been created across the country, prices have fallen, the stock market is booming. People are feeling the benefits of these policies, and more people will if we stay the course and continue to keep government spending and government regulation as limited as possible."
"By doing nothing, we are not solving poverty and inequality, Mr. President--injustice prevails when good men do nothing, as it has become known over and over again. Hard working people across this great nation are worried about their future, they are worried about their survival. In this century the American people have declared that it should be success and not survival that should be any man's concern, but that is not possible when people do not have the opportunity to succeed!"
"By lowering the size of government we have allowed people to succeed--we have allowed businesses to create new jobs, to lower prices. Our economy is expanding faster than after the Second World War. I am not denying there are still problems in our society, Senator, but government is not the one that can best fix those problems. If we continue to give the market more freedom, then our prosperity will continue to expand to all Americans!"
"Mr. President--"
"Senator, there are more--"
"Mr. President, corporations don't care about the people, don't expect them to start giving a damn."
"President Buckley likes to talk about those things--expansion and prosperity--but those words are just words to people in the cities or on the farms, people without security, people who have to get up everyday knowing that if anything happens, then they would have nowhere to turn. President Buckley has neglected the needs of the American working class, and he has abandoned the American working class!"
"Senator... Senator, that's simply not true. The middle class has grown considerably thanks to the policies we have implemented. New jobs have been created across the country, prices have fallen, the stock market is booming. People are feeling the benefits of these policies, and more people will if we stay the course and continue to keep government spending and government regulation as limited as possible."
"By doing nothing, we are not solving poverty and inequality, Mr. President--injustice prevails when good men do nothing, as it has become known over and over again. Hard working people across this great nation are worried about their future, they are worried about their survival. In this century the American people have declared that it should be success and not survival that should be any man's concern, but that is not possible when people do not have the opportunity to succeed!"
"By lowering the size of government we have allowed people to succeed--we have allowed businesses to create new jobs, to lower prices. Our economy is expanding faster than after the Second World War. I am not denying there are still problems in our society, Senator, but government is not the one that can best fix those problems. If we continue to give the market more freedom, then our prosperity will continue to expand to all Americans!"
"Mr. President--"
"Senator, there are more--"
"Mr. President, corporations don't care about the people, don't expect them to start giving a damn."
Chapter One Hundred and Forty Six
"The Communist Party of the United States has endorsed Ron Dellums--Gus Hall, their Secretary General, referred to him as his friend. Ron Dellums supports the presence of Cuban troops in Angola. Ron Dellums cannot be trusted."
-Citizens Against Dellums Ad (1984)
-Citizens Against Dellums Ad (1984)
It's going to be close. How much can Dellums tar Buckley with not doing enough, how much can Buckley tar Dellums with the scary red paint of Communism and Socialism, and how much can Dellums overcome the race element...
...I'd have to say that from this vantage point it looks much more likely that Buckley will win, rather than Dellums, but I'm ready to be surprised.
...I'd have to say that from this vantage point it looks much more likely that Buckley will win, rather than Dellums, but I'm ready to be surprised.
Chapter One Hundred and Forty Seven
"We have now received the exit polls from the state of New Hampshire--President Buckley has carried the State of New Hampshire..."
-Dan Rather (1984)
"Ron Dellums has taken an early lead in Vermont--the Senator has maintained..."
-John Chancellor (1984)
-Dan Rather (1984)
"Ron Dellums has taken an early lead in Vermont--the Senator has maintained..."
-John Chancellor (1984)
Chapter One Hundred and Forty Eight
"In Massachusetts and Rhode Island, Senator Dellums has the lead, while in Connecticut it seems the President is carrying the state..."
-Dan Rather (1984)
"In Indiana, President Buckley--according to exit polls--has the lead."
-John Chancellor (1984)
"We can confirm the state of Maryland for Senator Dellums."
-Tom Brokaw (1984)
-Dan Rather (1984)
"In Indiana, President Buckley--according to exit polls--has the lead."
-John Chancellor (1984)
"We can confirm the state of Maryland for Senator Dellums."
-Tom Brokaw (1984)