Okay, that is slightly masochistic. On the other hand, the fact that a leading presidential candidate in OTL 2016 is a quasi-Zhirinovsky with an authoritarian personality who proposes George Lincoln Rockwell-style ethnic cleansing might be influencing you a bit too much!
Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears
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Okay, that is slightly masochistic. On the other hand, the fact that a leading presidential candidate in OTL 2016 is a quasi-Zhirinovsky with an authoritarian personality who proposes George Lincoln Rockwell-style ethnic cleansing might be influencing you a bit too much!
John Denver - balladeer of the American diaspora
Bernie Sanders - a democratic socialist in Rumsfeld's America - isn't that the equivalent of a snowball in Hell? My guess, he went for a hike in Northern Vermont one day and kept going north until he came to a town where all the locals were speaking French. After that he joined the NDP, or came back to join the WTP.
Howard Zinn - See Bernie Sanders. Most likely teaching in Canada.
Chris Hedges - WTP activist and writer
Rick Perlstein - Yes I've read Nixonland and The Invisible Bridge, can't wait for his accounts of Wallace and Rumsfeldia
Right now he's a teenager in Fox Point with parents who are establishment Republicans (a survival measure if not a true belief).
John S. Rumsfeld - yes, another Rumsfeld. Only this one is so pissed-off with people associating his name with the other guy that's he an active supporter of President McCloskey.
Adam Curtis (documentary filmmaker) - anti-Tory Libertarian filmmaker.
John Hughes - in California trying to revive Hollywood
Johnny Carson - I'd say that he might have originally been a supporter of Rumsfeld but now he is supporting President McCloskey
James May - auto journalist; writing about the revived British auto industry
Jeremy Clarkson - BBC presented
Richard Hammond - high school I'd say
Michael Palin - I commented on the Pythons before, but you are correct that 80Days, Pole-to-Pole, Sahara and Brazil are impractical ITTL. He could do one on the trans-Siberian, the Orient Express, maybe Iran. He's probably become a train lover.
Shoko Asahara - still a top drawer nutter. Probably under close surveillance by the revived Kempeitai
Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin - I seem to recall killing one of these guys in FLG'72 sometime around 1975. The survivor would be involved with the WTP. Both committed suicide OTL, I can imagine that Rumsfeldia would drive them even deeper into depression.
Bobby Seale - AAFP and WTP activist. Possible warlord of Chicago.
Sophia Loren - Starring in Europe and happy to be there (after paying her back taxes in Italy)
Islam Karimov - Soviet Minister of Nationalities
Simon Schama - He took a break from writing Citizens to write a groundbreaking account comparing the administrations of Wallace and Rumsfeld to the Gracchi, Julius Ceasar and Augustus around how excessive populism leads to strongman government and the destruction of Republican government, then and now. A best sellers (well, outside of Rumsfeldia, anyway). They even allowed him to publish it in Russian in the USSR, and in an experiment, allowed Schama to keep (most of) the Soviet royalties.
Richard Curtis (screenwriter) - the real Blackadder
Tom Lehrer - nervous breakdown
Sam Walton - discount store operator and Rumsfeld corporate supporter - but lucky for him he gave lots of money to the CV as well.
Bernie Sanders - a democratic socialist in Rumsfeld's America - isn't that the equivalent of a snowball in Hell? My guess, he went for a hike in Northern Vermont one day and kept going north until he came to a town where all the locals were speaking French. After that he joined the NDP, or came back to join the WTP.
Howard Zinn - See Bernie Sanders. Most likely teaching in Canada.
Chris Hedges - WTP activist and writer
Rick Perlstein - Yes I've read Nixonland and The Invisible Bridge, can't wait for his accounts of Wallace and Rumsfeldia
Right now he's a teenager in Fox Point with parents who are establishment Republicans (a survival measure if not a true belief).John S. Rumsfeld - yes, another Rumsfeld. Only this one is so pissed-off with people associating his name with the other guy that's he an active supporter of President McCloskey.
Adam Curtis (documentary filmmaker) - anti-Tory Libertarian filmmaker.
John Hughes - in California trying to revive Hollywood
Johnny Carson - I'd say that he might have originally been a supporter of Rumsfeld but now he is supporting President McCloskey
James May - auto journalist; writing about the revived British auto industry
Jeremy Clarkson - BBC presented
Richard Hammond - high school I'd say
Michael Palin - I commented on the Pythons before, but you are correct that 80Days, Pole-to-Pole, Sahara and Brazil are impractical ITTL. He could do one on the trans-Siberian, the Orient Express, maybe Iran. He's probably become a train lover.
Shoko Asahara - still a top drawer nutter. Probably under close surveillance by the revived Kempeitai
Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin - I seem to recall killing one of these guys in FLG'72 sometime around 1975. The survivor would be involved with the WTP. Both committed suicide OTL, I can imagine that Rumsfeldia would drive them even deeper into depression.
Bobby Seale - AAFP and WTP activist. Possible warlord of Chicago.
Sophia Loren - Starring in Europe and happy to be there (after paying her back taxes in Italy)
Islam Karimov - Soviet Minister of Nationalities
Simon Schama - He took a break from writing Citizens to write a groundbreaking account comparing the administrations of Wallace and Rumsfeld to the Gracchi, Julius Ceasar and Augustus around how excessive populism leads to strongman government and the destruction of Republican government, then and now. A best sellers (well, outside of Rumsfeldia, anyway). They even allowed him to publish it in Russian in the USSR, and in an experiment, allowed Schama to keep (most of) the Soviet royalties.
Richard Curtis (screenwriter) - the real Blackadder
Tom Lehrer - nervous breakdown
Sam Walton - discount store operator and Rumsfeld corporate supporter - but lucky for him he gave lots of money to the CV as well.
I can see him being a happy Rumsfeldian who only gets a clue now that the Wizard is gone and he can see behind the curtain. He might even join Gingrich in the Rumsfeldia denial choir.
bookmark95
Banned
What I mean to say is I feel the CVs would be the ultimate karma for those who stood by as their neighbors and political representatives were dragged off.
I feel that Jeremiah Denton deserves to be dragged off himself for letting a US Senator (Mark Pryor) be removed for opposing Rummy's policies.
Perhaps in the future, when or if there is a truth and reconciliation period for this TL. For now, he's what you got.
bookmark95
Banned
"Where are they now?"
Ann Richards
Barbara Jordan- I'm guessing she is the chairperson of We The People in Texas
Dick Lamm- Last I heard he was still Governor of Colorado, but I wonder if Rummy singled him out as a target. Lamm was the man denied the Vice Presidency, and he probably would oppose Rumsfeld's corporatism. Lamm also drafted the nation's first abortion law and OTL supported physician assisted suicide, so Rummy would indict him in order to gain support of conservative Christians. If Rummy didn't target him, the CVs certainly would. On the another hand, I assume he would be safe in Colorado, which could easily become a Libertarian stronghold.
Trey Parker and Matt Stone- I imagine them being young Libertarian activists out in Colorado. I'm betting that the Libertarian strongholds offer the last bit of create freedom left in the lower 48.
Tom Tancredo
Paul Laxalt
Harry Reid
Nolan Bushnell
Daniel Inouye- What's happen to him now that his state has seceded?
Richard Shelby-
John Stennis-
Gary Johnson- He was mentioned in FLaG as having become a major Libertarian Party figure.
Al Sharpton
Bob Hoskins
John Engler- I bet he ditched the Republican Party right now.
The McCloksey Seven- Have they been locked up in an asylum?
Ann Richards
Barbara Jordan- I'm guessing she is the chairperson of We The People in Texas
Dick Lamm- Last I heard he was still Governor of Colorado, but I wonder if Rummy singled him out as a target. Lamm was the man denied the Vice Presidency, and he probably would oppose Rumsfeld's corporatism. Lamm also drafted the nation's first abortion law and OTL supported physician assisted suicide, so Rummy would indict him in order to gain support of conservative Christians. If Rummy didn't target him, the CVs certainly would. On the another hand, I assume he would be safe in Colorado, which could easily become a Libertarian stronghold.
Trey Parker and Matt Stone- I imagine them being young Libertarian activists out in Colorado. I'm betting that the Libertarian strongholds offer the last bit of create freedom left in the lower 48.
Tom Tancredo
Paul Laxalt
Harry Reid
Nolan Bushnell
Daniel Inouye- What's happen to him now that his state has seceded?
Richard Shelby-
John Stennis-
Gary Johnson- He was mentioned in FLaG as having become a major Libertarian Party figure.
Al Sharpton
Bob Hoskins
John Engler- I bet he ditched the Republican Party right now.
The McCloksey Seven- Have they been locked up in an asylum?
Cambodia will come under pressure to clean-up its act from its neighbours, and if not I can see this happening with South Vietnam being the invader, with support from Thailand and Malaysia (among others). An alternative would be a military coup supported by the neighbours followed by a junta under their influence.
Whether they like each other or not, Thailand, South Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, the Phillippines and perhaps even Indonesia all have a interest in trading as well developing their defence infrastructure. They may even see the need for a form of common market to support their developing economies. They have a strategic interest in preserving Bangladesh, Myanmar, Laos and North Vietnam* as buffers against the chaos in China and India (much as Ryzhkov promotes the rump PRC and North Korea as buffers so he doesn't have send his military into the morass that is ITTL China and sink his economy in the process).
One of the key strategic infrastructure projects would be a Bangkok to Saigon roadway (and/or railroad) which would not only serve business interests but provide a southern defence link across the region. Cambodia being in the middle, would necessarily have to be brought into the scheme under a tamed government.
All of the developing nations would also be good customers of the British and French arms markets and may even be looking at what the new Japanese armaments industries have to offer.
* So the South Vietnamese President Ngô Quang Trưởng promotes a policy of Ostpolitik (or Nordpolitk) with his Northern neighbour aimed at more than just a possible reunification.
Whether they like each other or not, Thailand, South Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, the Phillippines and perhaps even Indonesia all have a interest in trading as well developing their defence infrastructure. They may even see the need for a form of common market to support their developing economies. They have a strategic interest in preserving Bangladesh, Myanmar, Laos and North Vietnam* as buffers against the chaos in China and India (much as Ryzhkov promotes the rump PRC and North Korea as buffers so he doesn't have send his military into the morass that is ITTL China and sink his economy in the process).
One of the key strategic infrastructure projects would be a Bangkok to Saigon roadway (and/or railroad) which would not only serve business interests but provide a southern defence link across the region. Cambodia being in the middle, would necessarily have to be brought into the scheme under a tamed government.
All of the developing nations would also be good customers of the British and French arms markets and may even be looking at what the new Japanese armaments industries have to offer.
* So the South Vietnamese President Ngô Quang Trưởng promotes a policy of Ostpolitik (or Nordpolitk) with his Northern neighbour aimed at more than just a possible reunification.
John Denver - balladeer of the American diaspora
Bernie Sanders - a democratic socialist in Rumsfeld's America - isn't that the equivalent of a snowball in Hell? My guess, he went for a hike in Northern Vermont one day and kept going north until he came to a town where all the locals were speaking French. After that he joined the NDP, or came back to join the WTP.
Howard Zinn - See Bernie Sanders. Most likely teaching in Canada.
Chris Hedges - WTP activist and writer
Rick Perlstein - Yes I've read Nixonland and The Invisible Bridge, can't wait for his accounts of Wallace and Rumsfeldia
John S. Rumsfeld - yes, another Rumsfeld. Only this one is so pissed-off with people associating his name with the other guy that's he an active supporter of President McCloskey.
Adam Curtis (documentary filmmaker) - anti-Tory Libertarian filmmaker.
John Hughes - in California trying to revive Hollywood
Johnny Carson - I'd say that he might have originally been a supporter of Rumsfeld but now he is supporting President McCloskey
James May - auto journalist; writing about the revived British auto industry
Jeremy Clarkson - BBC presented
Richard Hammond - high school I'd say
Michael Palin - I commented on the Pythons before, but you are correct that 80Days, Pole-to-Pole, Sahara and Brazil are impractical ITTL. He could do one on the trans-Siberian, the Orient Express, maybe Iran. He's probably become a train lover.
Shoko Asahara - still a top drawer nutter. Probably under close surveillance by the revived Kempeitai
Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin - I seem to recall killing one of these guys in FLG'72 sometime around 1975. The survivor would be involved with the WTP. Both committed suicide OTL, I can imagine that Rumsfeldia would drive them even deeper into depression.
Bobby Seale - AAFP and WTP activist. Possible warlord of Chicago.
Sophia Loren - Starring in Europe and happy to be there (after paying her back taxes in Italy)
Islam Karimov - Soviet Minister of Nationalities
Simon Schama - He took a break from writing Citizens to write a groundbreaking account comparing the administrations of Wallace and Rumsfeld to the Gracchi, Julius Ceasar and Augustus around how excessive populism leads to strongman government and the destruction of Republican government, then and now. A best sellers (well, outside of Rumsfeldia, anyway). They even allowed him to publish it in Russian in the USSR, and in an experiment, allowed Schama to keep (most of) the Soviet royalties.
Richard Curtis (screenwriter) - the real Blackadder
Tom Lehrer - nervous breakdown
Sam Walton - discount store operator and Rumsfeld corporate supporter - but lucky for him he gave lots of money to the CV as well.
The fates of Simon Schama and Michael Palin are interesting
.Southern Asia is one of the places that somehow managed to be better off TTL compared to OTL. I wouldn't be surprised indeed if France and Britain revive their links with the region as part of the Commonwealth and Francophonie. French language will also have a much higher status and prestige in former Indochina TTL than OTL.
I can't help but think that in a way this timeline puts the "West" (if one include the Soviets there in a civilizational sense) in a much stronger strategic position relative to OTL all things considered. Sure the United States have been severly weakened. But Europe is somehow better off, the Soviet Union is better off economically. China as is out of the picture as any kind of competitor. A fragmented India will never become a force to reckon with and some of the leftover states will struggle with huge issues like the caste system etc on their own.
TTL 2010 is almost a rehearsal of OTL 1910, Europe dominant, Japan and America rising or re-rising and everyone else bar some exceptions is too poor to matter.
I can't help but think that in a way this timeline puts the "West" (if one include the Soviets there in a civilizational sense) in a much stronger strategic position relative to OTL all things considered. Sure the United States have been severly weakened. But Europe is somehow better off, the Soviet Union is better off economically. China as is out of the picture as any kind of competitor. A fragmented India will never become a force to reckon with and some of the leftover states will struggle with huge issues like the caste system etc on their own.
TTL 2010 is almost a rehearsal of OTL 1910, Europe dominant, Japan and America rising or re-rising and everyone else bar some exceptions is too poor to matter.
Lost Freeway
Banned
But you said...
In response to this
How are the two related? Why would you want America to fall apart even if Rumsfeldia never happens?
bookmark95
Banned
Maybe I'm being too vague.
I don't want America to fall apart.
But if the US could get this bad, and if the CVs utterly wreck it, my pity would be small because the vast majority of Americans allowed things to slide to this point.
As I've said in the past, the chickens are coming home to roost. Many innocents will get caught up in the CV madness, but if a two-time Rumsfeld voter and longtime supporter of Rumsfeldism in general, who expressed relief every time one of those "America-hating liberal bastards" had a nervous breakdown, or was giddy at the sight of already-poor people becoming completely destitute while they hid behind a gated community, if they suddenly find themselves working 12 hour days in the hot sun picking crops, their home appropriated by the local pastor, or hauled before a Holy Tribunal for the crime of not expressing enough adulation for the joys of living the way "God" intended, then they would have no sympathy from me. They sowed the wind, and now they reap the whirlwind.
bookmark95
Banned
Thank you for articulating my thoughts better than I could. (But I also think a person who voted twice for CV is not going to enjoy the CSA very much either).
But I also hope that Americans, humbled by the utter collapse of their country, will learn from their mistakes a build a more progressive country,
bookmark95
Banned
Popular votes will be a part of the Constitution. It's the wackiness of the Electoral College that allowed Rummy to slither into power with less than 40 percent of the vote.
Limits on presidential power.
Stronger states' rights, except no Jim Crow.
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