ruling house of France

Who should rule France

  • Capet

    Votes: 22 61.1%
  • Valois

    Votes: 7 19.4%
  • Valois-Orleans

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • Valois angoueleme

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bourbon

    Votes: 5 13.9%

  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
Related to my other thread, which dynasty should rule France?

Capets or Valois?

This is with a pod in 1298 where the house of Bruce remains on the 5rkne of Scotland and eventually rules England

I came in here to do some Jacobite shilling but I see you have nipped that in the bud - good day to you, sir!
 
My initial question is, in the timeline that I'm planning, which has a pod in 1296, where the Bruce dynasty continues through a son being born to Robert the Bruce of Scotland and his wife Isabella of Mar, should the ruling dynasty of France be the descendants of Philip IV, or descended from Charles of Valois
It's easy to go down either with Jean I le Posthume, descendants of Jeanne de Navarre (assuming that people don't consider her a bastard) or Philippe V le Long.
 
It's easy to go down either with Jean I le Posthume, descendants of Jeanne de Navarre (assuming that people don't consider her a bastard) or Philippe V le Long.

Alright interesting, with Philippe V, he does seem as if he has the cards to really get France back on track after his brother's disastorous reign, plus after reading the Accursed Kings, I've found myself quite liking him aha. Though of course, this makes me wonder, what happens for the English regarding Gascony in such a scenario?
 
Alright interesting, with Philippe V, he does seem as if he has the cards to really get France back on track after his brother's disastorous reign, plus after reading the Accursed Kings, I've found myself quite liking him aha. Though of course, this makes me wonder, what happens for the English regarding Gascony in such a scenario?
As long as the Plantagenêts are vassals of the French King, they will enter in conflict sooner or later in conflict with whoever controls France.
What could be changed however is, if the King of France is Philippe V, he might gain the upper hand in the initial phases of the conflict just because of how stupidly the war went around IOTL.
 
I have a hard time thinking why Charles VIII and Louis XII who are second cousins once removed, are of the same Valois dynasty, while Philip VI and Charles IV, who were merely first cousins, both instances of the male line, are of different dynasties, Capet and Valois.

Lots of confusion came from the fact two branches used the name "Valois". The first were the descendants of Philip VI, Count of Valois before his accession and the second were the descendants of Francis Ist, Duke of Valois before his accession. The identity of the line called "the Valois" depend of the context, even if, as you wrote, there is more difference in ruling between the second and first Valois than between the last Capetians and the first Valois.
 
Lots of confusion came from the fact two branches used the name "Valois". The first were the descendants of Philip VI, Count of Valois before his accession and the second were the descendants of Francis Ist, Duke of Valois before his accession. The identity of the line called "the Valois" depend of the context, even if, as you wrote, there is more difference in ruling between the second and first Valois than between the last Capetians and the first Valois.

Weren't Louis XII and later Francis I actually descend from Louis, Duke of Orleans, brother of Charles VI, and the same man who was murdered by John the Fearless, Duke of Burgundy? Why keep the appellation Valois if they could just be called the House of Orleans since Louis XII was actually Duke of Orleans before he became king, just like Philip VI was Count of Valois before he became king??
 
As long as the Plantagenêts are vassals of the French King, they will enter in conflict sooner or later in conflict with whoever controls France.
What could be changed however is, if the King of France is Philippe V, he might gain the upper hand in the initial phases of the conflict just because of how stupidly the war went around IOTL.

Alright interesting, could Philippe if needed support a coup by his sister against Edward II to destablise England for the time being and gain more concessions from the English?

Weren't Louis XII and later Francis I actually descend from Louis, Duke of Orleans, brother of Charles VI, and the same man who was murdered by John the Fearless, Duke of Burgundy? Why keep the appellation Valois if they could just be called the House of Orleans?

Perhaps because historians wished to avoid confusion with the later House of Bourbon Orleans?
 
Okay, and I can see the Auld Alliance perhaps being renewed as well, once the Bruce himself dies.
As long as the French view the English as rivals - in other words, as long as the English hold land on the continent - France will be interested in the Auld Alliance. England itself, however, is not that much to speak of in the XIVth century. As the Accursed Kings poses it, England had 2 million inhabitants when France had 14. England was just not the size to be a rival of France, merely a satellite, once it has lost Guyenne and Gascogne.
 
As long as the French view the English as rivals - in other words, as long as the English hold land on the continent - France will be interested in the Auld Alliance. England itself, however, is not that much to speak of in the XIVth century. As the Accursed Kings poses it, England had 2 million inhabitants when France had 14. England was just not the size to be a rival of France, merely a satellite, once it has lost Guyenne and Gascogne.

This is very true, hence why they kept fighting for control over it I imagine. And of course, if Balliol is still around, the English might use him to cause trouble for the Scots
 
The only royal house of any kind I support would be the Bonapartes because of their common origin, but obviously they aren't an option.
 
The only royal house of any kind I support would be the Bonapartes because of their common origin, but obviously they aren't an option.
Oh what is it about their common origin that appeals to You? And do you think they’d exist with a pod in 1296?
 
Oh what is it about their common origin that appeals to You? And do you think they’d exist with a pod in 1296?

Im a republican so I despise royal houses. The Bonapartes can at least say they earned their position (well as least Napoleon) through military success and political intrigue. However I don't think that anything would be similar to OTL with a POD in 1296.
 
Im a republican so I despise royal houses. The Bonapartes can at least say they earned their position (well as least Napoleon) through military success and political intrigue. However I don't think that anything would be similar to OTL with a POD in 1296.
Interesting, he did also take advantage of chaos in France at the time, whilst in the modern day most republics have denigrated into graft and nonsense, but fair
 
Not a fan?

Oh boy don't get me started! Let me just
say that while I recognize he did leave
France better off than he found it, he also
sold Joan of Arc down the river, which I regard as an Eiffel Tower-sized blot on his
record.
 
Oh boy don't get me started! Let me just
say that while I recognize he did leave
France better off than he found it, he also
sold Joan of Arc down the river, which I regard as an Eiffel Tower-sized blot on his
record.
Aha fair, so Felipe v getting your vote then?
 
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