Rules/Cliches of AH

[Ridwan Asher]

This still means the "Greek Istambul" cliche doesnt happen as much as implied sometimes. Well, at lest not anymore.

Not so much nowadays. However it still does appear occasionally at lower frequency. It is rather fringe-rized now, with the top circle AH authors absorbed into the interest of exploiting the potentials of the now-apparently-more-abundant Ottoman-related informations, can provide, and naturally that it spilled down. However the process to that situation was rather painful.... If you would bother to check the ASB section and some other parts of the board, you can actually see that the extend of the more recent trend is actually rather limited. There are still grudges around.....

 

[Whanztastic]

Greeks in Anatolia is not often in TLs but it is often in maps, same with CP puppet states. This is because these cliches/semi-impossible scenarios don't need to be explained/supported in maps as much as they do otherwise.

There actually some recent examples of both.

Nations of an Alternate Europe 2 has Byzantium, a classic anti-Turkwank.

A majorly dissected Russia in the Map Thread

Another Germanwank with absurd Greek state

So it seems that Germanwank is exceptionally common, but that is not surprising given the two largest conflicts in recent history involved them loosing both times so it is kind of forgivable for this.

Another very common idea is Israel in the EU. Minchandre just posted this idea again but he is suggesting an alternate EU, rather than OTL's organization which then includes Israel, which is fairly impossible, given that it would violate the Treaty of Maastricht and Israel does not meet the Copenhagen criteria.

 

[IsraFrance]

What is this Korea you speak of? I've never heard of it.

That's why in the new alt world thread I made a Hyper wanked Korean Faschist Empire, just for something new.

 

[Petike]

The Phillipines can only be either Spanish, American or German. No one else can own them as a colony, EVER...

 

[RGB]

The Phillipines can only be either Spanish, American or German. No one else can own them as a colony, EVER...

I've seen Japan do it several times as well, mostly in a post-WW2 context.

 

[hopper2cool]

The Phillipines can only be either Spanish, American or German. No one else can own them as a colony, EVER...

You know that does seem to be true and it's kind of weird since France and Britain also seem like obvious choices.

 

[Petike]

You know that does seem to be true and it's kind of weird since France and Britain also seem like obvious choices.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

 

[Petike]

I suggest we should get this thread stickied - either here or in the Help and Feedback forum.

 

[Petike]

Mild necro

Have you noticed that "CP wins WWI" TLs always have Germany taking over nearly half of Eurasia and forcibly assimilating its own former allies (A-H, the Ottomans) as well ? Seriously, every "CP wins" map I ever saw apparently didn't take into account that Austria-Hungary is also interested in the spoils of war, being a suffering lackey of Germany throughout the entire war : Germany promising but never delivering enough troops and tech at the eastern front, Hungary basically doing cheap and convenient grain exports for the Germans while starving its own soldiers... Still, not even a single "thanks", just some good ol' backstabbing and "yaaay, we all of a sudden control all of central and eastern Europe, ack-ack !".

Guess the Germans are simply the default Canon Sues or Mary Tzus. Or are more popular for ATL wanks.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

The Phillipines can only be either Spanish, American or German. No one else can own them as a colony, EVER...

I've seen Japan do it several times as well, mostly in a post-WW2 context.

Funny - I just pointed this out in a chat channel earlier today.

Also, on topic:

1. British colonies are automatically better than all other colonies.
2. The lands around the Aegean can only be Greek, Byzantine, or Ottoman.
3. Some things that can be butterflied away aren't in OTL.
4. There will always be a Reformation circa 1500, unless the POD involves the Popes or the Hohenstaufens.

 

[counterblitzkrieg]

Whatever happens in the world, Japan not only survives as an independent nation, but also became a world power (or a regional power at the least).

 

[Petike]

A cliché of published authors :

The US and Britain are always adversaries or bitter enemies if there's at least a mild reason to justify it, however nonsensical it would be from a cultural or diplomatic perspective.

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

If a TL's author doesn't know much about a certain people, they don't exist and their land will be colonized without complaints.

 

[Gregory Nero Arken]

The Phillipines can only be either Spanish, American or German. No one else can own them as a colony, EVER...

We kept them partially do to the Germans steaming straight at them, with the Japanese dropping bye to say how they didn't mind us there, but if we were to ever plan on leaving...

What about Axis!America tending to give up the Philippines to go directly under Japanese hegemony?

 

[9 Fanged Hummingbird]

Oh, another cliche pertaining to colonies, in ATL's any random European nation can colonize and non-European patch of land, and there will rarely, if ever, be any resentment or rebellion against colonial overlords, despite this flying in the face of logic and history.

 

[Gregory Nero Arken]

Oh, another cliche pertaining to colonies, in ATL's any random European nation can colonize and non-European patch of land, and there will rarely, if ever, be any resentment or rebellion against colonial overlords, despite this flying in the face of logic and history.

Plus the death rate of pale skinned people anywhere south of the Pyrenees.

 

[Petike]

Oh, another cliche pertaining to colonies, in ATL's any random European nation can colonize and non-European patch of land, and there will rarely, if ever, be any resentment or rebellion against colonial overlords, despite this flying in the face of logic and history.

Good one. But I am sort of guilty of this one to an extent : I have a Polish-Lithuanian colony founded in OTL Guyana and eastern Venezuela in the 17th century, dubbed New Pommerania. And then they establish a colony in NE Australia during the 18th century, cca in the more coastal and mountainous parts of OTL Queensland. They call it Kazimierzova ziemia ("Casimir's land", after a then-ruling monarch of theirs). They also had a shortly lived African colony in the 17th century (their first, later taken over by the Dutch and then the French). I do try to depict colonies realistically though - they're is an equal amount of issues concerning their self-sustanance and self-rule as in OTL. And I dislike making natives into superfluous extras that exist solely to remind the readers that there were people there already and to get potential asskickings from their righteous colonial overlords. That's really a cliché on its own, and not just in AH. One 20th century writer in my TL is half-Polish and half-AusAboriginer, and he eventually becomes a vague equivalent of J. R. R. Tolkien in that respective alternate unvierse.

As for the whole "Polish colonies" thing in OTL, read this.

 

[wolf_brother]

Regardless of what happens in Eastern Europe, or why (or when), there is always a Yugoslavia.

 

[Mauro Motta]

The Panglossian Cliché:

I) "OTL is always the best of the possible worlds"


The convergence Cliché:
II) "Regardless of the POD, there is nearly irresistible tendence
for an ATL to get as similar to OTL as possible with the passing of time"
Practically all TLs written obey these two clichés.

 

[Jaydoh]

The Panglossian Cliché:

I) "OTL is always the best of the possible worlds"

Really? I've noticed that (at least with pre-Modern Era PODs) the ATL almost always has faster technological advancement, although this may be because people tend to love 'Rome survives' timelines, and that leads to a hunky-dory future (in yet another AH cliche).

Maybe someone should write a dystopic TL featuring a surviving Roman Empire in the spirit of 037771's We'll Meet Again.