Rosa's Reich - Red Germany
- Thread starter GlobalHumanism
- Start date
SadSyndieBoy
Banned
What has happened to the turkish Spartacist in TTL in OTL when the first World War ended there was a small group of turks living in Germany when the German revolutions occurred they were inspired and created their own political group in Berlin called “Türkiye İşçi ve Köylü Partisi”(Turkish Worker and Peasant Party) they assisted the Spartacist uprising and when it failed they either fled to Turkey or Russia,in Turkey they created the first socialist party called “Türkiye İşçi ve Köylü Sosyalist Partisi”(Turkeys Socialist Worker and Peasant party).
So what happens to them in TTL?
So what happens to them in TTL?
SadSyndieBoy
Banned
Although I am not the writer nor contribute to the writing I have some ideas and predictions that I would like to share.Firstly I am going with the assumption that all German,Soviet,Italian and french (If there is one) revolutions succeed,now I would imagine that the french revolution would cause a lot of shock for the world firstly both the French and British bourgeoisie governments scramble to defend them self against the Marxists but as I have said in my previous statement I will be going with assumption that it succeeds and the bourgeoisie french governments is thrown from Europe,now they have to deal with the native Africans who as I would imagine are inspired by the events in Europe and are probably trying to start their own liberation war.Well how does this affect turkey?well as you may know turkey is in the middle of Turkish War of Independence and its looking real good for turkey the Italian front is closed with the outbreak of the Italian revolution the same goes for the french front aswell so the only armies with real fighting forces are Greeks,Armenians and the British and this only in nascent 1920!anyways I think the British wont put up much of a fight because of the surrender of the french front and the invasion of the Syria and more experienced Turkish officers joining and dealing with the Marxist threat,putting down colonial rebellions and Labour strikes,aftermath of the Great War,etc. we would atleast get Mosul and Hatay.And now there is only the Greek and the Armenians,Armenian front will I think go as it did in OTL maybe bit shorter and the same goes for greeks and the war will end in around 1922 with full Turkish control of the straits. you can say this is a turkey wank and have biases which could be true but keep in mind that these are just my own opinions. but the political situation (in my mind) gets real interesting I will post it tomorow if have the time
Vignette: France - Le Congrés Rouge
Vignette: France - Le Congrés Rouge
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Time Period: 1900 - July, 1920
From the economic and cultural heights of La Belle Époque, to the darkness of The Great War, France and her republic had weathered many challenges; though none greater than what she faced in the Summer of 1920. Moscow, Berlin, Milan and Budapest had, albeit in different ways, fallen to Marxist Revolution; all eyes were now on Paris. “Workers – arise! The time of our liberation is at hand!” shouted a Picardie factory worker at a small, night rally.
Yet, even as the political situation that France had found herself in seemed destined, given the parliament’s flirtations with leftist politik, this particular turn of events was far from pre-ordained.
With the utter collapse of the Paris Commune in 1871, socialist doctrine, at least as it had related to Marxist political action, had been ousted from the public discourse. Though the French Communards were not communists, many of the revolutionary programmes enacted during their brief usurpation of power mirrored those ordered by Marx’s manifesto; Yet, with its fall, and the execution of many of its leaders and participants, revolutionary socialism of the type championed by the most radical elements of the Commune had, for the time being, been utterly discredited.
However, with French revanchism sending the Third Republic hurdling into the catastrophe of the Great War, coupled with the slow accumulation of political influence by many of those who had either privately or publically sympathized with the cause of Communards, the economic and political stresses placed upon the people once again prompted many to consider if a different, more revolutionary path may once again be preferable than that of offered by the wartime polity.
Though the Union Sacree, which served as the national coalition government during the wartime had been chaired primarily by a solid political majority of French Socialists, its anti-strike programme in the early years of the war caused fissures to arise within the overarching French left. While the majority of the political parties had been swept up in the nationalistic fervor of 1914, some had voiced trepidations over the sacrifices such a total conflict would have on the working class. Chief among those were several key members of the French Section of the Worker’s International (SIFO). However, with patriotism drowning out such critique, the French Left, by in large, marched in solidarity with all other political groups onward into the soon to be blood soaked trenches.
With Verdun in 1916, and then the disaster of Nivelle’s offensive in 1917 which had too been buttressed by the February Revolution in Russia months prior, this solidarity soon broke as army mutinies and general strife on the French home front coerced the left to once again take sides.
“We knew of from the beginning, the savagery that this chauvinistic conflict would wrought upon the working class!” shouted Ludovic-Oscar Frossard, leading member of the small pacifist clique within SIFO, at an intra-party rally. “It is clear that supporting this war was a mistake and thus we must do all we can to champion the Republic’s immediate extrication from this conflict.” The room of leaders applauded.
By the middle of 1917, SIFO had begun to shift back-over over toward anti-war agitation, and with Frossard’s election to Secretary-General of SIFO in 1918, this anti-war sentiment became demonstrably the chief focus of party activity.
However, with the war’s end in November of that same year, coupled with the political ripples that Bolshevism on the march in Russia, and Rosa Luxemburg’s successes in the mileu of the German Revolution had created for leftist parties across the world, another debate began to arise from within the party’s leadership.
Would revolution provide not only the most expedient path toward liberation for the French working class, but also the clearist? And if so, should Froussard lead SIFO down a path of party vanguardism or mass action?
Though a party Congress was scheduled to debate this and other topics for the winter of 1920, Clemenceau’s disaster at the Odessa Front, which prompted the mass munity of the French army of occupation forced a change in the date.
Thus, with the mutinous French forces expelled from the Ruhr by the German Red Army and now marching on Paris, Clemenceau’s national unity government in disarray and teetering on political collapse, Froussard and the leadership of the French Section of the Worker’s International met in Tours in July of 1920. With Bolshevism and Luxemburgism expanding in the east, the destiny of the French radical left laid in the hands of these men and women.
______________
______________
Time Period: 1900 - July, 1920
From the economic and cultural heights of La Belle Époque, to the darkness of The Great War, France and her republic had weathered many challenges; though none greater than what she faced in the Summer of 1920. Moscow, Berlin, Milan and Budapest had, albeit in different ways, fallen to Marxist Revolution; all eyes were now on Paris. “Workers – arise! The time of our liberation is at hand!” shouted a Picardie factory worker at a small, night rally.
Yet, even as the political situation that France had found herself in seemed destined, given the parliament’s flirtations with leftist politik, this particular turn of events was far from pre-ordained.
With the utter collapse of the Paris Commune in 1871, socialist doctrine, at least as it had related to Marxist political action, had been ousted from the public discourse. Though the French Communards were not communists, many of the revolutionary programmes enacted during their brief usurpation of power mirrored those ordered by Marx’s manifesto; Yet, with its fall, and the execution of many of its leaders and participants, revolutionary socialism of the type championed by the most radical elements of the Commune had, for the time being, been utterly discredited.
However, with French revanchism sending the Third Republic hurdling into the catastrophe of the Great War, coupled with the slow accumulation of political influence by many of those who had either privately or publically sympathized with the cause of Communards, the economic and political stresses placed upon the people once again prompted many to consider if a different, more revolutionary path may once again be preferable than that of offered by the wartime polity.
Though the Union Sacree, which served as the national coalition government during the wartime had been chaired primarily by a solid political majority of French Socialists, its anti-strike programme in the early years of the war caused fissures to arise within the overarching French left. While the majority of the political parties had been swept up in the nationalistic fervor of 1914, some had voiced trepidations over the sacrifices such a total conflict would have on the working class. Chief among those were several key members of the French Section of the Worker’s International (SIFO). However, with patriotism drowning out such critique, the French Left, by in large, marched in solidarity with all other political groups onward into the soon to be blood soaked trenches.
With Verdun in 1916, and then the disaster of Nivelle’s offensive in 1917 which had too been buttressed by the February Revolution in Russia months prior, this solidarity soon broke as army mutinies and general strife on the French home front coerced the left to once again take sides.
“We knew of from the beginning, the savagery that this chauvinistic conflict would wrought upon the working class!” shouted Ludovic-Oscar Frossard, leading member of the small pacifist clique within SIFO, at an intra-party rally. “It is clear that supporting this war was a mistake and thus we must do all we can to champion the Republic’s immediate extrication from this conflict.” The room of leaders applauded.
By the middle of 1917, SIFO had begun to shift back-over over toward anti-war agitation, and with Frossard’s election to Secretary-General of SIFO in 1918, this anti-war sentiment became demonstrably the chief focus of party activity.
However, with the war’s end in November of that same year, coupled with the political ripples that Bolshevism on the march in Russia, and Rosa Luxemburg’s successes in the mileu of the German Revolution had created for leftist parties across the world, another debate began to arise from within the party’s leadership.
Would revolution provide not only the most expedient path toward liberation for the French working class, but also the clearist? And if so, should Froussard lead SIFO down a path of party vanguardism or mass action?
Though a party Congress was scheduled to debate this and other topics for the winter of 1920, Clemenceau’s disaster at the Odessa Front, which prompted the mass munity of the French army of occupation forced a change in the date.
Thus, with the mutinous French forces expelled from the Ruhr by the German Red Army and now marching on Paris, Clemenceau’s national unity government in disarray and teetering on political collapse, Froussard and the leadership of the French Section of the Worker’s International met in Tours in July of 1920. With Bolshevism and Luxemburgism expanding in the east, the destiny of the French radical left laid in the hands of these men and women.
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Chapter VI (1920) | Part VI (Congress of Tours)
Chapter VI: The Crucible
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Time Period: July, 1920
Tours, France
“Order! – We will have order at this meeting!” shouted one of the attending French Section of the Worker’s International. “If we hope to even have a chance of bringing all of the topics espoused by our esteemed party colleagues to a debate, we must have order!”
Slowly the rabble of noise calmed itself and the disparate voices that populated the congressional meeting hall in Tours began to debate a path forward for the French left.
“With Luxemburgist power increasingly entrenched within Germany, and the new leftist arrangement displacing the power of the Bolsheviks in the Russian Soviet State, we must decide if the time is indeed ripe for a revolution of our own,” said General Secretary Ludovic-Oscar Frossard as he opened the congress. “I am confident, given the deteriorating parliementary situation that a single push by our ideological contingent, similar to that of the revolution in Petrograd in February 1917 could see a French dictatorship of the proletariat replace that of our current bourgeois controlled Republic.”
Immediately the hall erupted in shouts of dismay.
“Surely you don’t intend for SIFO to become some makeshift party of French Bolsheviki?!” extolled leftist Jean Longuet. “WE ARE FRENCH – such a top-down political arrangement will not work within our milieu – the working class will simply not stand behind it!”
Paul Faure, another prominent leftist leader within SIFO also agreed. “I must concur with my esteemed colleague – we must instead look towards the example provided by the Luxemburgist Grand Coalition in Berlin. Not only were they able to unite many political ideologies within the overarching German Council Communist revolution, but they were able to do so while mobilizing the masses to take an integral part in their movement. If we called a general strike to take place simultaneously with those soldiers marching home…”
“Surely you’re not proposing we align with those mutinous and rapacious rabble expelled from the Ruhr?!” shouted Bolshevik sympathizer Marcel Cachin. “It is clear, such a gambit would not only diminish popular support for our group, whatever the form it may take after this meeting, in the eyes of the still patriotic working class, it would almost at once make us enemies of the state! – No! I will not allow our party to fall into such an abyss while I am still a member!”
At once, several additional leaders joined Cachin in his protestations.
“Esteemed members! – The time for debate is over! – The time for action is upon us!” shouted Frossard’s ally Boris Souvarine as he desperately attempted to corral Cachin’s growing section of detractors back into order. “We must utilize every option at our disposable if we hope to be successful…”
It was too late. The chaos that had seemingly befallen the Congress on the first day, continued unto the second and third. And with the conclusion of the fourth, three distinct camps had firmly solidified among the delegates.
In the first was headed General-Secretary Frossard and his pro-party vanguardist allies. (Frossardists) Championing the Leninist path forward above other potentials, they put forward a vote to change the SIFO into the French Communist Party and simultaneously link with any groups willing to launch revolution with expedience. This included attempting an alliance with the mutinous troops of the French Occupation forces. This group included Boris Souvarine, and Fernand Loriot.
The second was headed by Leon Blum, and they instead championed mass action of the French proletariat (Blumists). Rather than launch an immediate armed struggle, the pushed to have SIFO immediately use its trade union support base to launch strikes in key industrial cities with the purpose of causing a collapse of Clemenceau’s national unity government. This group also included Jean Longuet and Paul Faure.
And the third and smalls of the split congress championed a non-revolutionary path forward.
Thus, with the Party Congress quickly drawing to a close, a vote to determine which path lay forward for the French left was put to the floor.
______________
Voting Time:
Which path forward should the French Section of the Worker’s International take? (result will have major consequences for Europe at large)
______________
Results
Blumists Win
Total Votes: 69
Blumists - 48 votes (70%)
Frossardists - 19 votes (28%)
Non-Aligned - 2 votes (3%)
______________
______________
Time Period: July, 1920
Tours, France
“Order! – We will have order at this meeting!” shouted one of the attending French Section of the Worker’s International. “If we hope to even have a chance of bringing all of the topics espoused by our esteemed party colleagues to a debate, we must have order!”
Slowly the rabble of noise calmed itself and the disparate voices that populated the congressional meeting hall in Tours began to debate a path forward for the French left.
“With Luxemburgist power increasingly entrenched within Germany, and the new leftist arrangement displacing the power of the Bolsheviks in the Russian Soviet State, we must decide if the time is indeed ripe for a revolution of our own,” said General Secretary Ludovic-Oscar Frossard as he opened the congress. “I am confident, given the deteriorating parliementary situation that a single push by our ideological contingent, similar to that of the revolution in Petrograd in February 1917 could see a French dictatorship of the proletariat replace that of our current bourgeois controlled Republic.”
Immediately the hall erupted in shouts of dismay.
“Surely you don’t intend for SIFO to become some makeshift party of French Bolsheviki?!” extolled leftist Jean Longuet. “WE ARE FRENCH – such a top-down political arrangement will not work within our milieu – the working class will simply not stand behind it!”
Paul Faure, another prominent leftist leader within SIFO also agreed. “I must concur with my esteemed colleague – we must instead look towards the example provided by the Luxemburgist Grand Coalition in Berlin. Not only were they able to unite many political ideologies within the overarching German Council Communist revolution, but they were able to do so while mobilizing the masses to take an integral part in their movement. If we called a general strike to take place simultaneously with those soldiers marching home…”
“Surely you’re not proposing we align with those mutinous and rapacious rabble expelled from the Ruhr?!” shouted Bolshevik sympathizer Marcel Cachin. “It is clear, such a gambit would not only diminish popular support for our group, whatever the form it may take after this meeting, in the eyes of the still patriotic working class, it would almost at once make us enemies of the state! – No! I will not allow our party to fall into such an abyss while I am still a member!”
At once, several additional leaders joined Cachin in his protestations.
“Esteemed members! – The time for debate is over! – The time for action is upon us!” shouted Frossard’s ally Boris Souvarine as he desperately attempted to corral Cachin’s growing section of detractors back into order. “We must utilize every option at our disposable if we hope to be successful…”
It was too late. The chaos that had seemingly befallen the Congress on the first day, continued unto the second and third. And with the conclusion of the fourth, three distinct camps had firmly solidified among the delegates.
In the first was headed General-Secretary Frossard and his pro-party vanguardist allies. (Frossardists) Championing the Leninist path forward above other potentials, they put forward a vote to change the SIFO into the French Communist Party and simultaneously link with any groups willing to launch revolution with expedience. This included attempting an alliance with the mutinous troops of the French Occupation forces. This group included Boris Souvarine, and Fernand Loriot.
The second was headed by Leon Blum, and they instead championed mass action of the French proletariat (Blumists). Rather than launch an immediate armed struggle, the pushed to have SIFO immediately use its trade union support base to launch strikes in key industrial cities with the purpose of causing a collapse of Clemenceau’s national unity government. This group also included Jean Longuet and Paul Faure.
And the third and smalls of the split congress championed a non-revolutionary path forward.
Thus, with the Party Congress quickly drawing to a close, a vote to determine which path lay forward for the French left was put to the floor.
______________
Voting Time:
Which path forward should the French Section of the Worker’s International take? (result will have major consequences for Europe at large)
______________
Results
Blumists Win
Total Votes: 69
Blumists - 48 votes (70%)
Frossardists - 19 votes (28%)
Non-Aligned - 2 votes (3%)
______________
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general strike, then armed occupation of state apparatus. pardon the desserters, perhaps also ally them, but be sure to do so after the strike so as not to alienate patriotic workers. approach the mutineers on the sly.
On the other hand, they're mostly the moderates who ended up managing capital OTL.
Where do the people screaming about the soldiers coming home end up? Because I definitely want to vote for the other side. Soldiers fucked over by the imperialist slaughter are the most revolutionary thinking workers.
I love this! By any chance, what’s the situation in Mongolia? Will Baron Ungern von Sternberg take over, and should Sükhbataar and the MPRP come into power, will he die young like in OTL? Also, considering the change in Soviet leadership and the fact that there are multiple powerful socialist states, will Mongolia be able to conduct a more independent foreign policy? Perhaps they’ll try to liberate Inner Mongolia?
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Hey all.
Now that I finally have the free time to work on this once again, expect a somewhat consistent update schedule.
However I'll get to all the previously asked questions before the next part comes out.
Also so if you have some more feel free to post them too.
Now that I finally have the free time to work on this once again, expect a somewhat consistent update schedule.
However I'll get to all the previously asked questions before the next part comes out.
Also so if you have some more feel free to post them too.
Yeah, not to mention that if things get ugly, they can use the violence of the government to turn the public over to their side.