Roosevelt at Versailles?

Bomster

Banned
Assuming that Roosevelt defeats Taft in the primaries and runs as a Republican in 1912, going on to win the election, and serving for two more terms, how would this affect America’s involvement in WW1 and what kind of Treaty of Versailles could emerge from having Roosevelt be president instead of Wilson?
 
Roosevelt's presidency probably would bring USA bit earlier to WW1 so the war might end bit earlier than in OTL. So generally Versailles might not be so harsh as in OTL. United States might accept to sign that. Another thing is would USA enter to League of Nations if such organisation is still founded.

And this is in wrong forum.
 
Does Quentin Roosevelt still die in this timeline? OTL it had a profound impact on Teddy and I wonder if he might be consumed with hatred towards the Germans if he holds them responsible for starting the war to begin with.
 
Roosevelt's presidency probably would bring USA bit earlier to WW1 so the war might end bit earlier than in OTL. So generally Versailles might not be so harsh as in OTL. United States might accept to sign that. Another thing is would USA enter to League of Nations if such organisation is still founded.

And this is in wrong forum.
The LoN was Woodrow Wilson'a brainchild, I doubt such a thing would exist ITTL. Maybe a post-Treaty of Vienna situation, just including the US?

I could also see Roosevelt using the opportunity to reinforce the Monroe Doctrine.
 

Bomster

Banned
Roosevelt's presidency probably would bring USA bit earlier to WW1 so the war might end bit earlier than in OTL. So generally Versailles might not be so harsh as in OTL. United States might accept to sign that. Another thing is would USA enter to League of Nations if such organisation is still founded.

And this is in wrong forum.
Oh whoops sorry bout that, how do I change it?
 
In the grand scheme of things? Nothing changes. Because the Allies will still lack the political will and means to enforce the Treaty for all time. The moment they start to slack on enforcement, Germany will quite happily and cheerfully take advantage of this. Each and every time.
 
The LoN was Woodrow Wilson'a brainchild, I doubt such a thing would exist ITTL.

"Finally, it would be a masterstroke if those great powers honestly bent on peace would form a League of Peace, not only to keep the peace among themselves, but to prevent, by force if necessary, its being broken by others. The supreme difficulty in connection with developing the peace work of The Hague arises from the lack of any executive power, of any police power to enforce the decrees of the court. In any community of any size the authority of the courts rests upon actual or potential force: on the existence of a police, or on the knowledge that the able-bodied men of the country are both ready and willing to see that the decrees of judicial and legislative bodies are put into effect. In new and wild communities where there is violence, an honest man must protect himself; and until other means of securing his safety are devised, it is both foolish and wicked to persuade him to surrender his arms while the men who are dangerous to the community retain theirs. He should not renounce the right to protect himself by his own efforts until the community is so organized that it can effectively relieve the individual of the duty of putting down violence. So it is with nations. Each nation must keep well prepared to defend itself until the establishment of some form of international police power, competent and willing to prevent violence as between nations. As things are now, such power to command peace throughout the world could best be assured by some combination between those great nations which sincerely desire peace and have no thought themselves of committing aggressions. The combination might at first be only to secure peace within certain definite limits and on certain definite conditions; but the ruler or statesman who should bring about such a combination would have earned his place in history for all time and his title to the gratitude of all mankind." https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1906/roosevelt-lecture.html
 

Md139115

Banned
"Finally, it would be a masterstroke if those great powers honestly bent on peace would form a League of Peace, not only to keep the peace among themselves, but to prevent, by force if necessary, its being broken by others. The supreme difficulty in connection with developing the peace work of The Hague arises from the lack of any executive power, of any police power to enforce the decrees of the court. In any community of any size the authority of the courts rests upon actual or potential force: on the existence of a police, or on the knowledge that the able-bodied men of the country are both ready and willing to see that the decrees of judicial and legislative bodies are put into effect. In new and wild communities where there is violence, an honest man must protect himself; and until other means of securing his safety are devised, it is both foolish and wicked to persuade him to surrender his arms while the men who are dangerous to the community retain theirs. He should not renounce the right to protect himself by his own efforts until the community is so organized that it can effectively relieve the individual of the duty of putting down violence. So it is with nations. Each nation must keep well prepared to defend itself until the establishment of some form of international police power, competent and willing to prevent violence as between nations. As things are now, such power to command peace throughout the world could best be assured by some combination between those great nations which sincerely desire peace and have no thought themselves of committing aggressions. The combination might at first be only to secure peace within certain definite limits and on certain definite conditions; but the ruler or statesman who should bring about such a combination would have earned his place in history for all time and his title to the gratitude of all mankind." https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1906/roosevelt-lecture.html

That’s less LoN and more UN or standing global army. That will be a really hard sell in many quarters.
 
That’s less LoN and more UN or standing global army. That will be a really hard sell in many quarters.

And do the details matter anyway?

With the war over, everyone is still keen to get back to normal life, and will take up arms to defend the settlement only when they actually feel the pistol a their heads. Neither TR nor anyone else can alter that.
 
TR wanted unconditional surrender, as I recall. So yeah, I think he'd have been harsher than Wilson.
 
TR wanted unconditional surrender, as I recall. So yeah, I think he'd have been harsher than Wilson.

Yet he expressed complete satisfaction with Foch's armistice terms. "Unconditional surrender" was more a figure of speech than anything.

Not that it matters. GB and France had taken massive casualties in the Hundred Days, and wouldn't incur more for the sake of a victory march in Berlin, whatever TR might want.
 
Had he been elected in 1912, I doubt Roosevelt's health would have carried him to Versailles. Even if it were an earlier Versailles Conference in 1918. Many credit TR's death in 1919 to the diseases he acquired during his 1914 trip to South America. That's only partly true. His death was due to a lifetime of overstress, war injuries, adventurism, and the death of his son that devastated him in 1918. Roosevelt historians pretty consistently point to his son's death as the largest and most direct contributing factor to his fatal heart attack. Given that life expentancies for pilots during WWI were extremely low, if Quentin follows a similar military career following his father's early entry into WWI he is almost certain to die in roughly the same amount of time as OTL. (Just over a year after the US declares war). This plus the general stress of wartime leadership means that if elected in 1912 and reelected in 1916, Roosevelt will barely make it into his second term before dying at some point probably in 1917 or 1918. (In OTL, he nearly died in February 1918 due to a rectal abscess. I think that had he made a Presidential comeback and served for another five years since 1913, this health incident would have killed him).

That said, also contrary to popular belief the League of Nations was not Wilson's brainchild. It was a policy he pushed for, but an international peace keeping organization had been talked about in the US and UK long before Wilson's 14 Points. Roosevelt and Taft publically advocated for such an idea, which also had the strong support of Lloyd-George in Britain. Some sort of international body would have been created by the Allies after WWI, if not America it would have been Britain leading the charge. In fact had Wilson not been President to shoot down US involvement because he was too arrogant to compromise with Lodge, America might actually have a role in this new organization.
 
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