Well, the problem is that the ET is basically tied to the Shuttle system, and moreover to NASA, which isn't going to have enough money to really take advantage of the ETs. They are useful, you just have to have a rather mature program to make exploiting them sensible and logical, and probably quite a bit of a redesign. Like I said, a good first step would be to add the Aft Cargo Carrier--that would have immediate use, but would give a precedent for bringing the ETs up and using them (it's not just that they would be an important structural component, but that by bringing the ET up you can use the SSMEs all the way into the initial orbit, for example).
Ronald Reagan's Space Exploration Initiative
- Thread starter Michel Van
- Start date
Well, the problem is that the ET is basically tied to the Shuttle system, and moreover to NASA, which isn't going to have enough money to really take advantage of the ETs. They are useful, you just have to have a rather mature program to make exploiting them sensible and logical, and probably quite a bit of a redesign. Like I said, a good first step would be to add the Aft Cargo Carrier--that would have immediate use, but would give a precedent for bringing the ETs up and using them (it's not just that they would be an important structural component, but that by bringing the ET up you can use the SSMEs all the way into the initial orbit, for example).
After Challenger, there were many recommendation to build TWO new Orbiter or refit Enterprise and build one new.
the reason was to more flexibility in launch rate, in case launch problems or a new shuttle catastrophe
but the limited NASA budget of 13 billion dollar were only build new Orbiter Endeavour, and even that was build from spare parts and leftovers from STS program
I bring Enterprise in play, so that US Congress and Senate have Star Trek fans as lobbyist, to keep the Program running
NASA study the reactivation of Saturn V in begin 1980s and again for SEI "Heavy lift launch vehicle" in 1990.
but had a very bad surprise: since decade obsolete Hardware and manufacture technics.
like the aluminum-magnesium 2014 T6-alloy from the Saturn V hull was build, (the advance Shuttle ET is from aluminium-copper 2219-alloy)
the tools and machine used for to build the component, were long gone: sold and scraped in 1970s
the iBM flight analog/digital Hybrid computer is a museum piece
in end they came to the conclusion: It's has only useful to rebuild the F-1 and J-2 engine and put them on Tanks based on Shuttle ET hardware.
Even this was consider as "not necessitated" by NASA administration, because a Heavy lift launch vehicle can be build "cheap" from ET, SRB and SSME...
so if Bob Dole is to old
what about this alternative ?
2000 George Bush jr. elected to president and as Vice president Newt Gingrich
later Gingrich it elected to president in 2008
while Dick Cheney is in prison for Inside deal on Halliburton and Dresser Industries merger and Tax evasion in 1998
or his heart attacks in 1988 was fatal
what about this alternative ?
2000 George Bush jr. elected to president and as Vice president Newt Gingrich
later Gingrich it elected to president in 2008
while Dick Cheney is in prison for Inside deal on Halliburton and Dresser Industries merger and Tax evasion in 1998
or his heart attacks in 1988 was fatal
while working on Text for first part of RSEI
i run into a problem, need a alternative for Soviet General Secretary in 1985
i can't use Mikhail Gorbachev, because his politic leading to downfall of USSR in 1991
and Boris Yeltsin is not much better, see His government from 1991 to 1999.
Is there any good alternative to them, under the soviet reformist ?
i run into a problem, need a alternative for Soviet General Secretary in 1985
i can't use Mikhail Gorbachev, because his politic leading to downfall of USSR in 1991
and Boris Yeltsin is not much better, see His government from 1991 to 1999.
Is there any good alternative to them, under the soviet reformist ?
Archibald
Banned
Try a wonderful book "Getting to the top in the Soviet Union". It lists a bunch of Gorbachev competitors, and the reasons of their downfall.
Gorbachev ascent was closely tied with Andropov. Yet Andropov, as head of KGB, should never have suceeded Breznhev in 1982.
Now had Suslov died after Breznhev (not eight months before) the succession could have been turned upside down.
Gorbachev ascent was closely tied with Andropov. Yet Andropov, as head of KGB, should never have suceeded Breznhev in 1982.
Now had Suslov died after Breznhev (not eight months before) the succession could have been turned upside down.
Thx for the Tip, Archibald, but i have to order the book online...
i have this list
Mikhail Gorbachev
Viktor Grishin
Grigory Romanov
but I found contradictory information on them
Romanov is describe as Reformer in english Wiki, in german Wiki as conservative hardliner
also how they lost against Gorbachev
after English Wiki Grishin a conservative hardliner push dying Chernenko to Vote what consider by the Central Committee as a cruel act.
German wiki explain that Grishin, was involve in a scandal about home financing in Moscow in 1985. what let to his downfall
also that rumor that Romanov had for the Marriage of his daughter,
let the porcelain service of Empress Catherine II fetched from the Hermitage and allot of it went broken during the ceremony.
but is this true ?
Last edited:
Osama was Sunni Whahabi radical, Hizbollah is Shiite ( and also quite radical too ) ... It´s completely ASB to him to join them, and even more ASB for him to lead them.
Thx for info Faralis, i will correct this later
back to Soviet General Secretary in 1985
i will take Grigory Romanov
He was very close to Yuri Andropov and he was responsible for industry and the military-industrial complex.
In this TL Yuri Andropov stay four years in Power, instead one year and three months in OTL.
also he work close with General Secretary Alexei Kosygin in 1970s, to fight corruption and miscast by the Communist Party.
Andropov could discover early, Mikhail Gorbachev disastrous work as Secretariat for Agriculture and fired him!
or Andropov death could put Gorbachev to lead into temptation and try to intrigues against his competitors, what backfires. like Viktor Grishin try in 1985.
(there are speculation that Gorbachev has really intrigues against his competitors to become General Secretary after Chernenko death)
Archibald
Banned
Michel you can read large part of the book for free on Google books
Gorbachev himself had a mentor which died early on, in 1978.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Kulakov
What I did learned reading the book is that Breznhev totally sabotaged his succession. There was not many ways to succeed the old crook - three, perhaps - and he blocked all of them for fifteen years. Together with extreme corruption, it is no surprise the USSR did not survived Breznhev for long.
Briefly: to suceed Breznhev you had to be a) a potential rival massing power and allies over the years - for example, Kirilenko. Breznhev cut all those heads.
b) the second or third ranking official in USSR, seating high in the hierarchy with the faint hope that, someday, you might suceed old Leonid. But the old fart lasted so long they all died before him - Kosygin, Suslov are examples of that.
So what was left ? young political leaders from the provinces, that would come to Moscow after they had found a mentor there.
Again, Breznhev blocked that access: over 18 years of reign, there was only a mere eight men promoted like this ! Among them was Gorbachev, and if you are interested i can provide a short list of the others.
It is no surprise that Breznhev imediate succession was a former chief of KGB - something totally unexpected, even in the USSR. Andropov was astute.
Gorbachev himself had a mentor which died early on, in 1978.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Kulakov
What I did learned reading the book is that Breznhev totally sabotaged his succession. There was not many ways to succeed the old crook - three, perhaps - and he blocked all of them for fifteen years. Together with extreme corruption, it is no surprise the USSR did not survived Breznhev for long.
Briefly: to suceed Breznhev you had to be a) a potential rival massing power and allies over the years - for example, Kirilenko. Breznhev cut all those heads.
b) the second or third ranking official in USSR, seating high in the hierarchy with the faint hope that, someday, you might suceed old Leonid. But the old fart lasted so long they all died before him - Kosygin, Suslov are examples of that.
So what was left ? young political leaders from the provinces, that would come to Moscow after they had found a mentor there.
Again, Breznhev blocked that access: over 18 years of reign, there was only a mere eight men promoted like this ! Among them was Gorbachev, and if you are interested i can provide a short list of the others.
It is no surprise that Breznhev imediate succession was a former chief of KGB - something totally unexpected, even in the USSR. Andropov was astute.
Michel you can read large part of the book for free on Google books
Gorbachev himself had a mentor which died early on, in 1978.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Kulakov
What I did learned reading the book is that Breznhev totally sabotaged his succession. There was not many ways to succeed the old crook - three, perhaps - and he blocked all of them for fifteen years. Together with extreme corruption, it is no surprise the USSR did not survived Breznhev for long.
Briefly: to suceed Breznhev you had to be a) a potential rival massing power and allies over the years - for example, Kirilenko. Breznhev cut all those heads.
b) the second or third ranking official in USSR, seating high in the hierarchy with the faint hope that, someday, you might suceed old Leonid. But the old fart lasted so long they all died before him - Kosygin, Suslov are examples of that.
So what was left ? young political leaders from the provinces, that would come to Moscow after they had found a mentor there.
Again, Breznhev blocked that access: over 18 years of reign, there was only a mere eight men promoted like this ! Among them was Gorbachev, and if you are interested i can provide a short list of the others.
It is no surprise that Breznhev imediate succession was a former chief of KGB - something totally unexpected, even in the USSR. Andropov was astute.
the Google Books preview of the Book ends at page 173
if you can post the list here, i would be thankful. Archibald
With General Secretary Alexei Kosygin since 1968 in power, allot of new fresh young men promoted in CP hierarchy.
So Gorbachev could have much more difficult, to stabilized his position in the politbureau, or even never promoted into it in first place !
a note on least years of Breznhev 1974 to 1982
according to some Germans Tv-dokumtation and Books about Breznhev
he had suffer several stroke and heart attacks, what let to damage on his brain.
so in last years he remain all most Brain-death in power, by the older member of the politbureau, who wanted to stay in power...
Reagan road to the S.E.I. ver2.2
Part one: The Coldwar Games
President Reagan politic was characterized by his Anticommunist and his fight against "The Empire of Evil" , how he called the Soviet Union.
He try to opposed the USSR, but his options was limited. Because the USSR had change over time, since the is assassination of Leonid Brezhnev in 1968.
His successor Alexei Kosygin (General Secretary from 1968-1980) manage a successful economic reform of soviet planned economy during 1970s.
Also USSR din't run in the same trap, like the USA with the Vietnam War. As the Afghanistan government ask for troops to help them.
they only got deployment of observers and instructors for Afghan Army, also delivery of Weapons.
So in 1980s the USSR economy is in a strong healthy condition. That even the Chinese communist copy the soviet reform program and radicalize it !
But there is Power struggle between the Reformist and Orthodox Communist, about who and how to run the Central Committee and so the USSR.
The Soviet people show little intreats in this, they were happy that the waiting line in Shops had vanish and that waiting time on TV's, washing-machines and Cars had shorten to a minimum.
In USA, President Reagan starts a modernization of US nuclear weapon-system with: MX-ICBM , B-1B Bomber, MGM-31 Pershing 2 , the Neutron Bomb and increase of nuclear submarines caring cruise missile.
The Central Committee, the Soviet Army leaders and KGB in the USSR, became very nervous and Paranoid about this weapons buildup and increase of NATO activity like construction of new atomic bunkers
the Soviet paranoia reach there maximum in september 1983 as the Soviet Army shot down Korean Air flight KAL007, believing it's was a US spy-plane.
Then on November 2, 1983 NATO start Able Archer 83, a exercise how NATO operate during a Nuclear War, The Soviet Army leaders and KGB believed this a begin of Nuclear War against USSR and there Allies !
the Shock was deep for NATO as they suddenly discover that USSR and Warsaw Pact gave high Alert and there activated there Nuclear forces and send there Bomber in the Air and submarines to launch sites in the ocean.
NATO chancel Able Archer 83 after US Diplomats use Moscow-Washington Hotline, and heard from Soviet side: "why do you want to attack us, why, why, why ?!"
It's was long time speculation, about and why the Soviets had reacted so uncommon. it was to illness of General Secretary Yuri Andropov (in office 1980-1984), what the orthodox Communist military abused to declare high alert.
while the reformist find out the truth over Moscow-Washington Hotline, what let to defusing the Crisis with stop of Able Archer 83 and recall of the Soviet nuclear forces
Able Archer 83 aka Second Missile Crisis was a warning shot for President Reagan anticommunist politics.
Humiliated but not defeated, Reagan look for other option to fight "The Empire of Evil" and there was another option left: Space !
on January 2, 1972. US President Nixon announced the Space Shuttle Program, it promise 50 low cost launch / per year
the KGB is concerned about this USAF NASA join venture and comes to a wrong conclusion: the shuttle is also a USAF weapon system !
Alarmed by the KGB report, the Central Committee orders a new Space Program to counter US shuttle program and terminate the N1 manned lunar program in 1973.
beginning of 1980s the NRO & CIA notice the increases activity on the Soviet space program.
In begin 1983 a US spy-satellite photograph a Shuttle Orbiter like craft on a runway and construction of new launch pads in Baikonur Cosmodrom.
the CIA is perplex, the USSR has a own Space Shuttle program and the CIA comes to a wrong conclusion: the Soviet Space Program goes for total domination of Space !
this Report lands on the desk of the President, who to oder a staff meeting with vice-President Bush and there advisors in December 1983
During the debate how to counter this "new Soviet threat", several Ideas were consider closely:
- US withdrawal from the ABM Treaty and build a ICBM defense system who protect the US city's, under Strategic Air Command.
- Militarization of Space by USAF.
- NASA with "Bigger as Apollo" program.
On the ICBM defense system (ABM) the debate became yeastier, President Reagan supported the Idea, while most of the advisors disown it.
the Diplomats note that current Soviet "Madman theory ala Nixon" policy, would be to dangerous to install that system.
Also is a Nuclear armed ABM in violation of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty (who forbid the use of Nuclear weapons in space)
While Scientist had there doubt about this ABM system would work 100% sure.
On Reagan question about Death-Ray like in Movie Star Wars, was answer by hysterical laughter by his advisors, who consider this as pure Science-Fiction.
NOTE: in OTL Advisor physicist Edward Teller had here present current state of US Laser program, what let to S.D.I., but he died of hearth attack, during watching the Movie "The China Syndrome" in this TL 1978
The President don't gave up that idea not completely, he reactivated the original ABM program on March 8, 1983.
And in same time Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency start a Secret Research & Development program on new generation of ABM Interceptor rockets and "Kinetic Kill Vehicle",
Also the USAF can go ahead with there Air Launch Sortie Vehicle, what became later public known as "the X-Wing Fighter Program"
To counter USSR space ambitions, with a civilian manned exploration space program was questioned by President Reagan, while Vice President Bush response enthusiastic on the Idea.
during the discussion the arguments against and therefor:
while the Scientist recommending the NASA Program as new chance for stimulated many areas of technology, like new materials or medication, true research on a Space Station.
also would inspire the new program the USA like in old day with Apollo moon landing, but one argument what President Reagan has change his mind was: the creation of new jobs in the US Aerospace industry
After the Meeting,. the Vice President contact the NASA HQ and order a study for a large space program
90 days later NASA presented "the 90 day Study" to President Reagan and Vice President Bush.
de facto it was a remake of the notorious "Integrated Manned program" of The Space Task Group from year 1969, only with technology of 1980s
It's a 30 year program what implies 3 phases:
Phase 1: A Space Station until 1990.
Phase 2: Return to moon and a Lunar Base in 1990s.
Phase 3: Manned flight to Mars in 2000s.
Reagan and Bush were enthusiastic about this "2001' a odyssey in space" scheme, because of it enormous size and possibly of crating jobs in US aerospace industry
But "the 90 day Study" had one major problem: a vast expense of 500 BILLION US dollars, the NASA budget had to increase from 13 to 30 billions US dollar per year
"A Small price to pay if you want to beat the commies in space" mean Reagan to the huge prise tag.
on march 23, 1983. Ronald Reagan announce the "Space Exploration Initiative"
"I call upon the Scientific community who put American's on the Moon and turn there great talents to the cause of mankind and world peace, to give us the mean of explored the solarstystem"
But US congress and Senate were not the same opinion.
Walter Mondale and William Proximire became the spokesmen for opposition against S.E.I. and the program end up in US House Committee hearings for next three years.
Ironically the classified USAF Air Launch Sortie Vehicle program and classified DARPA ABM program had no problems like this, there were financed with "Black budgets"
in 1984 William Proximire gave S.E.I. his Golden Fleece Award, as the total waste of public money in the history of US.
The President had another Problems in February, General Secretary Yuri Andropov has died and Konstantin Chernenko became his successor.
And the Diplomat incident between USA and USSR with refusal Chernenko to visit The opening ceremony of the XXIII Olympic games in Los Angeles,
Reagan who had already great mistrust toward Andropov, (specially because his KGB background), consider this as personal insult from Chermenko.
Unknowing that the new General Secretary was very ill, Konstantin Chernenko died a year later in 1985 and for public unknown Grigory Romanov become the new General Secretary.
Part one: The Coldwar Games
President Reagan politic was characterized by his Anticommunist and his fight against "The Empire of Evil" , how he called the Soviet Union.
He try to opposed the USSR, but his options was limited. Because the USSR had change over time, since the is assassination of Leonid Brezhnev in 1968.
His successor Alexei Kosygin (General Secretary from 1968-1980) manage a successful economic reform of soviet planned economy during 1970s.
Also USSR din't run in the same trap, like the USA with the Vietnam War. As the Afghanistan government ask for troops to help them.
they only got deployment of observers and instructors for Afghan Army, also delivery of Weapons.
So in 1980s the USSR economy is in a strong healthy condition. That even the Chinese communist copy the soviet reform program and radicalize it !
But there is Power struggle between the Reformist and Orthodox Communist, about who and how to run the Central Committee and so the USSR.
The Soviet people show little intreats in this, they were happy that the waiting line in Shops had vanish and that waiting time on TV's, washing-machines and Cars had shorten to a minimum.
In USA, President Reagan starts a modernization of US nuclear weapon-system with: MX-ICBM , B-1B Bomber, MGM-31 Pershing 2 , the Neutron Bomb and increase of nuclear submarines caring cruise missile.
The Central Committee, the Soviet Army leaders and KGB in the USSR, became very nervous and Paranoid about this weapons buildup and increase of NATO activity like construction of new atomic bunkers
the Soviet paranoia reach there maximum in september 1983 as the Soviet Army shot down Korean Air flight KAL007, believing it's was a US spy-plane.
Then on November 2, 1983 NATO start Able Archer 83, a exercise how NATO operate during a Nuclear War, The Soviet Army leaders and KGB believed this a begin of Nuclear War against USSR and there Allies !
the Shock was deep for NATO as they suddenly discover that USSR and Warsaw Pact gave high Alert and there activated there Nuclear forces and send there Bomber in the Air and submarines to launch sites in the ocean.
NATO chancel Able Archer 83 after US Diplomats use Moscow-Washington Hotline, and heard from Soviet side: "why do you want to attack us, why, why, why ?!"
It's was long time speculation, about and why the Soviets had reacted so uncommon. it was to illness of General Secretary Yuri Andropov (in office 1980-1984), what the orthodox Communist military abused to declare high alert.
while the reformist find out the truth over Moscow-Washington Hotline, what let to defusing the Crisis with stop of Able Archer 83 and recall of the Soviet nuclear forces
Able Archer 83 aka Second Missile Crisis was a warning shot for President Reagan anticommunist politics.
Humiliated but not defeated, Reagan look for other option to fight "The Empire of Evil" and there was another option left: Space !
on January 2, 1972. US President Nixon announced the Space Shuttle Program, it promise 50 low cost launch / per year
the KGB is concerned about this USAF NASA join venture and comes to a wrong conclusion: the shuttle is also a USAF weapon system !
Alarmed by the KGB report, the Central Committee orders a new Space Program to counter US shuttle program and terminate the N1 manned lunar program in 1973.
beginning of 1980s the NRO & CIA notice the increases activity on the Soviet space program.
In begin 1983 a US spy-satellite photograph a Shuttle Orbiter like craft on a runway and construction of new launch pads in Baikonur Cosmodrom.
the CIA is perplex, the USSR has a own Space Shuttle program and the CIA comes to a wrong conclusion: the Soviet Space Program goes for total domination of Space !
this Report lands on the desk of the President, who to oder a staff meeting with vice-President Bush and there advisors in December 1983
During the debate how to counter this "new Soviet threat", several Ideas were consider closely:
- US withdrawal from the ABM Treaty and build a ICBM defense system who protect the US city's, under Strategic Air Command.
- Militarization of Space by USAF.
- NASA with "Bigger as Apollo" program.
On the ICBM defense system (ABM) the debate became yeastier, President Reagan supported the Idea, while most of the advisors disown it.
the Diplomats note that current Soviet "Madman theory ala Nixon" policy, would be to dangerous to install that system.
Also is a Nuclear armed ABM in violation of the 1967 Outer Space Treaty (who forbid the use of Nuclear weapons in space)
While Scientist had there doubt about this ABM system would work 100% sure.
On Reagan question about Death-Ray like in Movie Star Wars, was answer by hysterical laughter by his advisors, who consider this as pure Science-Fiction.
NOTE: in OTL Advisor physicist Edward Teller had here present current state of US Laser program, what let to S.D.I., but he died of hearth attack, during watching the Movie "The China Syndrome" in this TL 1978
The President don't gave up that idea not completely, he reactivated the original ABM program on March 8, 1983.
And in same time Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency start a Secret Research & Development program on new generation of ABM Interceptor rockets and "Kinetic Kill Vehicle",
Also the USAF can go ahead with there Air Launch Sortie Vehicle, what became later public known as "the X-Wing Fighter Program"
To counter USSR space ambitions, with a civilian manned exploration space program was questioned by President Reagan, while Vice President Bush response enthusiastic on the Idea.
during the discussion the arguments against and therefor:
while the Scientist recommending the NASA Program as new chance for stimulated many areas of technology, like new materials or medication, true research on a Space Station.
also would inspire the new program the USA like in old day with Apollo moon landing, but one argument what President Reagan has change his mind was: the creation of new jobs in the US Aerospace industry
After the Meeting,. the Vice President contact the NASA HQ and order a study for a large space program
90 days later NASA presented "the 90 day Study" to President Reagan and Vice President Bush.
de facto it was a remake of the notorious "Integrated Manned program" of The Space Task Group from year 1969, only with technology of 1980s
It's a 30 year program what implies 3 phases:
Phase 1: A Space Station until 1990.
Phase 2: Return to moon and a Lunar Base in 1990s.
Phase 3: Manned flight to Mars in 2000s.
Reagan and Bush were enthusiastic about this "2001' a odyssey in space" scheme, because of it enormous size and possibly of crating jobs in US aerospace industry
But "the 90 day Study" had one major problem: a vast expense of 500 BILLION US dollars, the NASA budget had to increase from 13 to 30 billions US dollar per year
"A Small price to pay if you want to beat the commies in space" mean Reagan to the huge prise tag.
on march 23, 1983. Ronald Reagan announce the "Space Exploration Initiative"
"I call upon the Scientific community who put American's on the Moon and turn there great talents to the cause of mankind and world peace, to give us the mean of explored the solarstystem"
But US congress and Senate were not the same opinion.
Walter Mondale and William Proximire became the spokesmen for opposition against S.E.I. and the program end up in US House Committee hearings for next three years.
Ironically the classified USAF Air Launch Sortie Vehicle program and classified DARPA ABM program had no problems like this, there were financed with "Black budgets"
in 1984 William Proximire gave S.E.I. his Golden Fleece Award, as the total waste of public money in the history of US.
The President had another Problems in February, General Secretary Yuri Andropov has died and Konstantin Chernenko became his successor.
And the Diplomat incident between USA and USSR with refusal Chernenko to visit The opening ceremony of the XXIII Olympic games in Los Angeles,
Reagan who had already great mistrust toward Andropov, (specially because his KGB background), consider this as personal insult from Chermenko.
Unknowing that the new General Secretary was very ill, Konstantin Chernenko died a year later in 1985 and for public unknown Grigory Romanov become the new General Secretary.
Part two: How to use a National Disaster to your advantage.
January 28, 1986. the Space shuttle Challenger blast off Launch pad 39A, only 73 second later the space craft explode killing all seven Astronauts on board.
The Nation is under shock and the question rise: WHY ?
while NASA start investigation on the explosion, the US Congress and Senate start US House Committee hearings on Challenger, pushing S.E.I. discussion in the background
The Reagan administration began to turn the Victims, into tragic Heros of Space Exploration,
Already in night of tragedy Reagan postponed the State of the Union address and gave instead a Tribute to the victims (written by Peggy Noonan)
January 31, President Reagan visit the Johnson Space Center for a memorial serves for the death astronauts were he declared:
On the State of the Union address february 4, President Reagan explain this "higher goal" the Space Station "FREEDOM" from S.E.I. as a "monument for our tragic Heros of Space Exploration"
in the US Congress and Senate, Democrats start a polemic about Reagan's using the disaster in favor of S.E.I.
but on february 20, the USSR launch the core module of the MIR space station and has Two Space Station in orbit, MIR and SALYUT-7.
The Republicans start to question why has US none Space Station and Soviets two Station in orbit ?
On may 5, NASA Administrator William R Garham resign from his office because of the Challenger disaster.
James C. Fletcher returns for second term as NASA Administrator, He start to reinvested heavily into Shuttle safety and reliability.
On may 8 Soyuz T-15 is launch the First mission who dock with two Space Station consecutively,
This News hit US public opinion and it turn to Capitol Hill with the burring question Why can USA not counter this New Soviet Space Race ?
09 june 1986 the Roger's Commission Report hit like a bomb, It prove that the disaster could had be prevented:
-NASA management unrealistic launch schedule and misunderstanding of Shuttle failure rate with 1 against 100000, in real 1 against 25
-the SRB has dangerous design fault in there Segment seal O-rings.
-that Thiokol management put pressure on there engineers 'to lie' about the problem of the O-rings with low temperature.
-Space Shuttle had no safety system because lack of budget, do to cuts by US Congress.
Recommendation:
-Replace the SRB from Thiokol by new save design of another company, watched by a independent oversight group.
-Install a Rescue system for the Crew.
-New Office of Safety, Reliability and Quality Assurance who report directly to NASA administrator
-Refit the Enterprise Orbiter to fly status and build a new Orbiter for backup in case of another "failure" during launch.
-Satellites are launch with expendable rockets instead with the Shuttle
10 june NASA Administrator Fletcher report personally to President Reagan, how the planned recommendation permutes
In october during US House Committee hearings on Challenger, Former NASA Administrator William R Garham lose his temper and squalled against member of the Committee (and live on Nationwide TV )
The Debate about how to deal with NASA future, the President start with a Tactical move against US congress by declaring "Every voting against NASA, will be Veto by Me".
While US media survey show that public majority is against the Congress current space politic
on November 15, 1986 during the US Congress and Senate debate about pas the bill for Space Station "Freedom" and NASA additional budget,
the USSR launch there first Energia heavy lift rocket with dummy test space craft of 96 tons. after the News the Space Station Bill was past true with a large majority
the additional budget was refused by congress, only to be veto by the President, but past true Congress with a compromise: raise to 20 billion U$ instead of 30 billion U$.
in mean time journalist take look into History of the Space shuttle and discovery one Person had special interest to cut down the Shuttle Program :
Ex-Senator Walter Mondale, The former presidential nominee of 1984. Who made the worst electoral defeat for Democratic Party in US history.
Now the US press start to attack him in public media, accusing him as a political opportunist, who don't care about deadly consequence of his work.
Mondale who work at the Law firm Dorsey & Whitney in the time. was fired by them in order to save the firm reputation...
Also William Proxmire already under enmity of Space Advocates and Sci-Fi Fans had now the US Press against him,
they had dig up a tape of CBS program "60 Minutes" were Proxmire remarks on Space Colonization, were rip out of contact and publish as a Anti american statement on US space program
Larry Niven in a Interview about this in OMINI Magazine in 1987 (except)
in November 1988 William Proxmire lost his Senator seat by electoral defeat in Wisconsin
January 28, 1986. the Space shuttle Challenger blast off Launch pad 39A, only 73 second later the space craft explode killing all seven Astronauts on board.
The Nation is under shock and the question rise: WHY ?
while NASA start investigation on the explosion, the US Congress and Senate start US House Committee hearings on Challenger, pushing S.E.I. discussion in the background
The Reagan administration began to turn the Victims, into tragic Heros of Space Exploration,
Already in night of tragedy Reagan postponed the State of the Union address and gave instead a Tribute to the victims (written by Peggy Noonan)
January 31, President Reagan visit the Johnson Space Center for a memorial serves for the death astronauts were he declared:
On the State of the Union address february 4, President Reagan explain this "higher goal" the Space Station "FREEDOM" from S.E.I. as a "monument for our tragic Heros of Space Exploration"
in the US Congress and Senate, Democrats start a polemic about Reagan's using the disaster in favor of S.E.I.
but on february 20, the USSR launch the core module of the MIR space station and has Two Space Station in orbit, MIR and SALYUT-7.
The Republicans start to question why has US none Space Station and Soviets two Station in orbit ?
On may 5, NASA Administrator William R Garham resign from his office because of the Challenger disaster.
James C. Fletcher returns for second term as NASA Administrator, He start to reinvested heavily into Shuttle safety and reliability.
On may 8 Soyuz T-15 is launch the First mission who dock with two Space Station consecutively,
This News hit US public opinion and it turn to Capitol Hill with the burring question Why can USA not counter this New Soviet Space Race ?
09 june 1986 the Roger's Commission Report hit like a bomb, It prove that the disaster could had be prevented:
-NASA management unrealistic launch schedule and misunderstanding of Shuttle failure rate with 1 against 100000, in real 1 against 25
-the SRB has dangerous design fault in there Segment seal O-rings.
-that Thiokol management put pressure on there engineers 'to lie' about the problem of the O-rings with low temperature.
-Space Shuttle had no safety system because lack of budget, do to cuts by US Congress.
Recommendation:
-Replace the SRB from Thiokol by new save design of another company, watched by a independent oversight group.
-Install a Rescue system for the Crew.
-New Office of Safety, Reliability and Quality Assurance who report directly to NASA administrator
-Refit the Enterprise Orbiter to fly status and build a new Orbiter for backup in case of another "failure" during launch.
-Satellites are launch with expendable rockets instead with the Shuttle
10 june NASA Administrator Fletcher report personally to President Reagan, how the planned recommendation permutes
In october during US House Committee hearings on Challenger, Former NASA Administrator William R Garham lose his temper and squalled against member of the Committee (and live on Nationwide TV )
The Debate about how to deal with NASA future, the President start with a Tactical move against US congress by declaring "Every voting against NASA, will be Veto by Me".
While US media survey show that public majority is against the Congress current space politic
on November 15, 1986 during the US Congress and Senate debate about pas the bill for Space Station "Freedom" and NASA additional budget,
the USSR launch there first Energia heavy lift rocket with dummy test space craft of 96 tons. after the News the Space Station Bill was past true with a large majority
the additional budget was refused by congress, only to be veto by the President, but past true Congress with a compromise: raise to 20 billion U$ instead of 30 billion U$.
in mean time journalist take look into History of the Space shuttle and discovery one Person had special interest to cut down the Shuttle Program :
Ex-Senator Walter Mondale, The former presidential nominee of 1984. Who made the worst electoral defeat for Democratic Party in US history.
Now the US press start to attack him in public media, accusing him as a political opportunist, who don't care about deadly consequence of his work.
Mondale who work at the Law firm Dorsey & Whitney in the time. was fired by them in order to save the firm reputation...
Also William Proxmire already under enmity of Space Advocates and Sci-Fi Fans had now the US Press against him,
they had dig up a tape of CBS program "60 Minutes" were Proxmire remarks on Space Colonization, were rip out of contact and publish as a Anti american statement on US space program
Larry Niven in a Interview about this in OMINI Magazine in 1987 (except)
in November 1988 William Proxmire lost his Senator seat by electoral defeat in Wisconsin
Part Three: Phoenix from the Ashes
The "Energia shock" came NASA as a blessing
there budget of 13 billion was raised to U$ 20 billion for "The New Space Race" who the US media called it
NASA establish following the Rogers commission Report recommendation:
The creation of "Office of Safety, Reliability and Quality Assurance" with George Martin as chef
For the Solid rocket booster replacement, NASA had before Challenger Disaster, study a Advance Solid Booster rocket with Aerojet
this ASBR became new Booster for the Space Shuttle, feature: reduce of welding, three segments instead of four and improved joints between the Segments. it provide also higher payload.
Aerojet reactivated there old plant Dade near Homestead, Florida. Much to anger of environmentalist because it's location inside Everglades Natural-reserve.
The Orbiters under go a complete check and general overhaul, over 2000 changes on the systems were made.
A Crew escape-system (CES) was proposed, a telescopic bar on entry hatch were the Crew in pressure suits glide down. It has been the subject of controversy on his usefulness in case of dire emergency!
Ames Research Center tested this CES on unusual way, in Wind tunnel tests they drop action figures from Scale model of Shuttle with CES, with shocking result:
Marjory of action figures hit the Shuttle wing, a very deadly result for real Astronaut, the CES was modified so that crew pass far over the wing.
But the return to flight with Discovery was delay do problems on the ASBR. not by technical, but by law suits by environmentalist against the Dade factory/test side in Everglades Natural-reserve.
on November 15, 1988 the Soviet launch Buran unmanned one Orbit flight. a new embarrassment to NASA, who had declare weeks before in US House Committee hearings:
On January 28, 1989 came baptism of fire for ASBR as Discover STS-26 blast off
Also Work on Enterprise OV-101 and Orbiter "Phoenix" OV-105 began in july 1987.
Enterprise was the only Orbiter not space worthy, it was used for drop test or vibration test and fit-check on Launch Pad. to became later property of the Smithsonian Institution in 1985
the Smithsonian was not happy, about NASA seizure Enterprise in 1987. but got as replacement, the Orbiter Pathfinder OV-98 a ground test vehicle.
Rockwell had hard time to refit Enterprise to flight status installing SSME, OMS, heat shield, heat radiator& cooling system, fuelcell system and life-support
in same time start of assembly from leftover parts a new Orbiter nick named "Phoenix". but the orbiter was official labeled as "Endeavour" OV-105, after the ship of James Cook and Apollo 15 CSM.
June 1989 the Shuttle Enterprise is delivered to KSC, but it will take until december 1991 to maiden flight of Enterprise.
The return of the Enterprise as spacecraft, had impact on Sci-fi fans, specially since success of the new Tv Series, STAR TREK: The Next Generation.
Rockwell delivered Endeavour on may 1991, almost unperceived by the media because the world was changing deeply.
The "Energia shock" came NASA as a blessing
there budget of 13 billion was raised to U$ 20 billion for "The New Space Race" who the US media called it
NASA establish following the Rogers commission Report recommendation:
The creation of "Office of Safety, Reliability and Quality Assurance" with George Martin as chef
For the Solid rocket booster replacement, NASA had before Challenger Disaster, study a Advance Solid Booster rocket with Aerojet
this ASBR became new Booster for the Space Shuttle, feature: reduce of welding, three segments instead of four and improved joints between the Segments. it provide also higher payload.
Aerojet reactivated there old plant Dade near Homestead, Florida. Much to anger of environmentalist because it's location inside Everglades Natural-reserve.
The Orbiters under go a complete check and general overhaul, over 2000 changes on the systems were made.
A Crew escape-system (CES) was proposed, a telescopic bar on entry hatch were the Crew in pressure suits glide down. It has been the subject of controversy on his usefulness in case of dire emergency!
Ames Research Center tested this CES on unusual way, in Wind tunnel tests they drop action figures from Scale model of Shuttle with CES, with shocking result:
Marjory of action figures hit the Shuttle wing, a very deadly result for real Astronaut, the CES was modified so that crew pass far over the wing.
But the return to flight with Discovery was delay do problems on the ASBR. not by technical, but by law suits by environmentalist against the Dade factory/test side in Everglades Natural-reserve.
on November 15, 1988 the Soviet launch Buran unmanned one Orbit flight. a new embarrassment to NASA, who had declare weeks before in US House Committee hearings:
Do to the delays, NASA was force to go to Supreme Court of the United States. Who overrule the law suits by the environmentalist. what set a precedent case.
On January 28, 1989 came baptism of fire for ASBR as Discover STS-26 blast off
Also Work on Enterprise OV-101 and Orbiter "Phoenix" OV-105 began in july 1987.
Enterprise was the only Orbiter not space worthy, it was used for drop test or vibration test and fit-check on Launch Pad. to became later property of the Smithsonian Institution in 1985
the Smithsonian was not happy, about NASA seizure Enterprise in 1987. but got as replacement, the Orbiter Pathfinder OV-98 a ground test vehicle.
Rockwell had hard time to refit Enterprise to flight status installing SSME, OMS, heat shield, heat radiator& cooling system, fuelcell system and life-support
in same time start of assembly from leftover parts a new Orbiter nick named "Phoenix". but the orbiter was official labeled as "Endeavour" OV-105, after the ship of James Cook and Apollo 15 CSM.
June 1989 the Shuttle Enterprise is delivered to KSC, but it will take until december 1991 to maiden flight of Enterprise.
The return of the Enterprise as spacecraft, had impact on Sci-fi fans, specially since success of the new Tv Series, STAR TREK: The Next Generation.
Rockwell delivered Endeavour on may 1991, almost unperceived by the media because the world was changing deeply.
How about using modified ETs as dedicated ISS components? The producation line is already set up, so it shouldn't be that hard relatively speaking, to modify them. You could launch them into orbit with a SSME derived first stage in conjunction with SRBs.
so much i love the idea to use External Tank as part of Freedom
it has more disadvantage as advantages
Assembly:
all you got up there is a empty fuel tank, it has to be opened.
All the system has to be installed by the Shuttle crew by hand.
it takes dozens and more of shuttle flight to make operational and that is not practical.
Thermal protection
the ET is covered by orange colored foam.
that's to prevent the fuel to boil off on launch pad, in space that foam is of little use,
the vacuum of space make the foam hard and brittle, it will break off the tank expose the metal direct to space.
off curse we could put a second metal hull around ET and protect the foam. but that rise the mass of 37 ton to 50 tons!
Orbital decay
the ET ist huge heavy chunk, means it has more aerodynamic friction, see what happen to Skylab.
to counter that you need more fuel to push the mass in higher orbit...
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that you do all that in orbit. You do it on the ground. You're not actually using them as ETs and then converting them. You're using ETs as a shell for purpose built space station components and then launching them into space.
Oh, i had understand this as ET wet workshop approach, was very popular in 1980s
Actually they proposed something similar in 1993 called Option C4
that a single launch space station.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/spas1993.htm
A interesting idea, like space for 136 experiment racks.
but had some problems, like power supply or high-risk launch like Shuttle-C with out test.
or Europeans, Japanese and Canadians had to made massive modification on there hardware for C4 core module.
they preferred option B, what became later ISS.
although a crossover of Freedom and Option C4 would look cool...
I think you need an earlier Sov POD to make this work. The idea of SDI was always to spend the Soviets into the ground by pushing money in a direction those totalitarians couldn't ignore.
But at this point we had already won the space race and the Soviets didn't seem eager to enter a new one.
I think you need something happening in the late 70s or early 80s where the Soviets make a serious effort to get to Mars or something else dramatic in space that they can't back down from, and Reagan decides to respond.
But at this point we had already won the space race and the Soviets didn't seem eager to enter a new one.
I think you need something happening in the late 70s or early 80s where the Soviets make a serious effort to get to Mars or something else dramatic in space that they can't back down from, and Reagan decides to respond.
Part Four: how to hell we build this ?!
Since 1983 Reagan dream of Space Station Freedom, NASA had overwork that Design,
begin with "Power Tower", the "T-Design", the "Triangualr-Design" ending with Dual-Keel Design in 1985
Then in November 1986 NASA got official order by Capitol Hill to build the Station, here the Problem starts.
The Dual-Keel Design needed over 35 Shuttle launches. In begin the astronauts on EVA had to assembly the thrust structure there self, with over 156 connection to made.
what Johnson Center had serious concern about astronauts safety on "500 hours/year" EVA, also was problem that Station missing Orbital maneuver system (OMS) in early flight.
First temporally use of Station was not possibly to until flight 10, first manned mission were from flight 17 or 19, also it low power supply were heavy criticized.
Under Revised Baseline Configuration in 1987-1988, the Space Station and it assembly is change deeply.
The Thrust structure are build on ground and launch into 28.5° orbit, also the Station Modules shrink in size and mass and removing Nodes 3# and 4# from the design.
The power supply from 63 kW was double to 126 kW by enlarging the Solar arrays and install 8 of then on Station
But the assembly sequence still needed 15 launches. too much for Capitol Hill.
Also it needed 5 launches until first temporally use of Station and the problem of missing OMS in early flight.
While during discussion at Johnson Center, how to deal with problem came the argument of Shuttle-C op.
Shuttle-C is a unmanned version, could bring far more payload into orbit and it's OMS could keep the Space Station parts in Orbit. But was refutation because it high cost do lost expensive engine and other hardware.
until during the discussion someone ask:
With Shuttle-C launch they need only 9 launch were first 4 are dual launch of Space Shuttle and Shuttle-C, so Capitol Hill was pleased.
in 1988 this Freedom Final Configuration was accepted by NASA administration and development of Shuttle-C began for first use in 1990-91.
Other issue were new Spacesuits for Shuttle and Space Station and a Rescue Craft.
the Spacesuit should work with higher pressure and normal atmosphere, as current Spacesuit were Astronaut has to breath pure oxygen at low pressure and needed long time in airlock.
NASA take Ames AX-5 suit, because it was furthest developed in the time. But the new suit had unusual feature: it is coated with Gold to prevent corrosion and thermal protection.
With hilarious reaction in Media:
Robin Williams during his one man show:
specially in US Rap songs like Beastly Boy's "i wanna golden spacesuit" and the start a vogue, plating everything with gold in the 1990s
The Crew Rescue Vehicle was needed to bring Crew in case of dire emergency, back to earth fast. there were dozens proposals from large HL-10, X-24 Lifting Bodys. Discovery capsule and Mini space shuttle like Dyna soar.
that budget on Space Station was used now also on Shuttle-C program, it made the decision simple: A cheap Apollo stile capsule to build by Rockwell. they dig out the old blueprints of Apollo capsule and start to work.
CRV is bigger, with diameter with 14 ft. (the Apollo CM with 12.8 ft) and offer space for maximum 6 person..
on december 2, 1991 the Rescue Craft had first test from orbit on maiden flight of Shuttle Enterprise, nicknamed "Galileo Seven" work perfect and landed for the coast of Cape Canaveral.
Also Shuttle-C complete there ground qualification test in december 1991, now NASA was ready to build the Station.
Since 1983 Reagan dream of Space Station Freedom, NASA had overwork that Design,
begin with "Power Tower", the "T-Design", the "Triangualr-Design" ending with Dual-Keel Design in 1985
Then in November 1986 NASA got official order by Capitol Hill to build the Station, here the Problem starts.
The Dual-Keel Design needed over 35 Shuttle launches. In begin the astronauts on EVA had to assembly the thrust structure there self, with over 156 connection to made.
what Johnson Center had serious concern about astronauts safety on "500 hours/year" EVA, also was problem that Station missing Orbital maneuver system (OMS) in early flight.
First temporally use of Station was not possibly to until flight 10, first manned mission were from flight 17 or 19, also it low power supply were heavy criticized.
Under Revised Baseline Configuration in 1987-1988, the Space Station and it assembly is change deeply.
The Thrust structure are build on ground and launch into 28.5° orbit, also the Station Modules shrink in size and mass and removing Nodes 3# and 4# from the design.
The power supply from 63 kW was double to 126 kW by enlarging the Solar arrays and install 8 of then on Station
But the assembly sequence still needed 15 launches. too much for Capitol Hill.
Also it needed 5 launches until first temporally use of Station and the problem of missing OMS in early flight.
While during discussion at Johnson Center, how to deal with problem came the argument of Shuttle-C op.
Shuttle-C is a unmanned version, could bring far more payload into orbit and it's OMS could keep the Space Station parts in Orbit. But was refutation because it high cost do lost expensive engine and other hardware.
until during the discussion someone ask:
With Shuttle-C launch they need only 9 launch were first 4 are dual launch of Space Shuttle and Shuttle-C, so Capitol Hill was pleased.
in 1988 this Freedom Final Configuration was accepted by NASA administration and development of Shuttle-C began for first use in 1990-91.
Other issue were new Spacesuits for Shuttle and Space Station and a Rescue Craft.
the Spacesuit should work with higher pressure and normal atmosphere, as current Spacesuit were Astronaut has to breath pure oxygen at low pressure and needed long time in airlock.
NASA take Ames AX-5 suit, because it was furthest developed in the time. But the new suit had unusual feature: it is coated with Gold to prevent corrosion and thermal protection.
With hilarious reaction in Media:
Robin Williams during his one man show:
the therm "Golden spacesuits" burn it's way in US common speech as something really expensive piece of luxury,
specially in US Rap songs like Beastly Boy's "i wanna golden spacesuit" and the start a vogue, plating everything with gold in the 1990s
The Crew Rescue Vehicle was needed to bring Crew in case of dire emergency, back to earth fast. there were dozens proposals from large HL-10, X-24 Lifting Bodys. Discovery capsule and Mini space shuttle like Dyna soar.
that budget on Space Station was used now also on Shuttle-C program, it made the decision simple: A cheap Apollo stile capsule to build by Rockwell. they dig out the old blueprints of Apollo capsule and start to work.
CRV is bigger, with diameter with 14 ft. (the Apollo CM with 12.8 ft) and offer space for maximum 6 person..
on december 2, 1991 the Rescue Craft had first test from orbit on maiden flight of Shuttle Enterprise, nicknamed "Galileo Seven" work perfect and landed for the coast of Cape Canaveral.
Also Shuttle-C complete there ground qualification test in december 1991, now NASA was ready to build the Station.