Rommel's Barbarossa 1942 (Continued from Manstein in Africa)
- Thread starter BlairWitch749
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BlairWitch749
Banned
Looking forward to the next part.
working out some details for a naval encounter hopefully tomorrow should be ready... but failure before moscow will be updated first i think
BlairWitch749
Banned
A loss for words (Chapter 7)
Central Atlantic August 1941 aboard the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugene
Brinkmann looked back at the two weeks of his sortie and was completely pleased both his his ship and the great cooperation of the task force. They had sunk over 80 merchentmen 7 fleet destroyers, over a dozen sloops and corvettes and 1 light cruiser to date. The only negative mark on the journey so far had been when they encountered the Hood class battle cruiser HMS Repluse which was escorting one of the convoys. Admiral Ciliax had ordered pursuit and Eugene's excellent gunnery struck her 4 times with 8 inch shells and Tirpitz damaged her further with a near miss. The chase took them dangerously close to the range of New Foundland based catalina flying boats so Ciliax was forced to call it off. Ciliax ordered a provisional knight's cross awarded to Brinkmann and Eugene's first gunnery officer, however the veteran captain was disappointed that he couldn't sink the dangerous British warship.
After another bout of refueling from a prize tanker the group once again took station in the central Atlantic immune from allied airpower. The British had every desire and intention of destroying the German battlegroup however their resources were stretched thin, especially with the ongoing disasters in the Mediterranian. The quick sortie of HMS Eagle and Queen Elizabeth had to be recalled once the size of the German force was realized and Queen Elizabeth suffered a boiler problem which reduced her speed and made her an unnattractive ship for such a vital mission. HMS Prince of Whales fresh from the Malta evacuation operation and HMS Duke of York (unfinished and still with over 150 frantically working engineers aboard) along with HMS Malaya and Eagle made up the new task force however it took vital days to get them together and provisioned for the upcoming sortie. HMS Formidable was added as a last second addition to the British task force giving them much better striking power than just Eagle alone.
Malaya would be one of the major ships trying to combat Operation Vulture
Raeder and his dilligent intelligence services had picked up the marshaling of British forces. He ordered the U-boats that had been supporting Operation Full Moon back into the Atlantic with their prime targets being British warships. With the discovery of the Enigma compromise all U-Boats leaving port where equipped with the new 4a machine with the extra wheel for operational security until something new could be worked out. He also noted that the British were assembling their ships around Portsmouth and other channel ports. Knowing the Royal Navy was stretched to the breaking point he dispatched the pocket battleships KMS Admiral Scheer and KMS Lutzow along with the light cruiser KMS Emden along with two destroyers at maximum speed for the Iceland gap. Their mission involved another go at the Mediterranian convoys before reliving Ciliax who would then make for St. Nazair for fresh provisions and refit before more raiding.
Again the improved operational security favored the Germans as the small 5 ship task force cleared the Iceland gap. They were not able to do this unnoticed though as the Walrus aircraft from the cruiser HMS Norfolk made contact with the group under admiral Otto Kahler and they exchanged fire. Norfolk severly damaged one of the German destroyers and also hit Emden twice but the valiant British cruiser was deluged by 11 inch shells from Admiral Scheer which hit her magazine and blew her up with great loss of life. The German destroyer and had to be scuttled and the task force less one of their number continued on.
Admiral Scheer sank the British cruiser Norfolk
Whilst men drowned in the Atlantic and ships felt the deep a great celebration was going on in Florence for GeneralFeldMarshal Erich Von Manstein leader of the Panzer Army Africa. For crossing the canal Hitler gave him a field marshal's baton and Mussolini declared him an honorary marshal of the Italian army. Manstein's words were humble and full of praise for the vast improvment and contribution of the Italian army.
The German people owe the King of Italy, Il Duce and her people a great debt. It is through the valiant efforts of her soldiers, sailors and fliers that the British empire has been sent telling blows. I do not relish the defeat of such a noble enemy as the British instead I relish the opportunity to command the splendid warriors of the Panzer Army Africa and preside over their victories for our homeland. A long campaign has been fought and there is still more blood that must touch the sands before we will have shaped the world as needed but I have no doubt our steel axis can handle all the challanges that lay ahead
The propaganda photo session turned out excellent and Manstein's face was on the cover of every newspaper in Europe. Hitler had brought along one of his favorite generals and an aquaintance of Manstein's along to the ceremony. GeneralDerPanzerTrupper Erwin Rommel was granted two hours with the Field Marshal to discuss some potential plans against the Soviet Union. The two Panzer Generals ended up speaking deep into the night and their joint wisdom would change the fundamental shape of what Barbarossa would become.
Action figures of Rommel and Manstein were created after their historic conference in Florence and very popular gifts for German children for Easter that year
to be continued...
your thoughts?
Central Atlantic August 1941 aboard the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugene
Brinkmann looked back at the two weeks of his sortie and was completely pleased both his his ship and the great cooperation of the task force. They had sunk over 80 merchentmen 7 fleet destroyers, over a dozen sloops and corvettes and 1 light cruiser to date. The only negative mark on the journey so far had been when they encountered the Hood class battle cruiser HMS Repluse which was escorting one of the convoys. Admiral Ciliax had ordered pursuit and Eugene's excellent gunnery struck her 4 times with 8 inch shells and Tirpitz damaged her further with a near miss. The chase took them dangerously close to the range of New Foundland based catalina flying boats so Ciliax was forced to call it off. Ciliax ordered a provisional knight's cross awarded to Brinkmann and Eugene's first gunnery officer, however the veteran captain was disappointed that he couldn't sink the dangerous British warship.
After another bout of refueling from a prize tanker the group once again took station in the central Atlantic immune from allied airpower. The British had every desire and intention of destroying the German battlegroup however their resources were stretched thin, especially with the ongoing disasters in the Mediterranian. The quick sortie of HMS Eagle and Queen Elizabeth had to be recalled once the size of the German force was realized and Queen Elizabeth suffered a boiler problem which reduced her speed and made her an unnattractive ship for such a vital mission. HMS Prince of Whales fresh from the Malta evacuation operation and HMS Duke of York (unfinished and still with over 150 frantically working engineers aboard) along with HMS Malaya and Eagle made up the new task force however it took vital days to get them together and provisioned for the upcoming sortie. HMS Formidable was added as a last second addition to the British task force giving them much better striking power than just Eagle alone.
Malaya would be one of the major ships trying to combat Operation Vulture
Raeder and his dilligent intelligence services had picked up the marshaling of British forces. He ordered the U-boats that had been supporting Operation Full Moon back into the Atlantic with their prime targets being British warships. With the discovery of the Enigma compromise all U-Boats leaving port where equipped with the new 4a machine with the extra wheel for operational security until something new could be worked out. He also noted that the British were assembling their ships around Portsmouth and other channel ports. Knowing the Royal Navy was stretched to the breaking point he dispatched the pocket battleships KMS Admiral Scheer and KMS Lutzow along with the light cruiser KMS Emden along with two destroyers at maximum speed for the Iceland gap. Their mission involved another go at the Mediterranian convoys before reliving Ciliax who would then make for St. Nazair for fresh provisions and refit before more raiding.
Again the improved operational security favored the Germans as the small 5 ship task force cleared the Iceland gap. They were not able to do this unnoticed though as the Walrus aircraft from the cruiser HMS Norfolk made contact with the group under admiral Otto Kahler and they exchanged fire. Norfolk severly damaged one of the German destroyers and also hit Emden twice but the valiant British cruiser was deluged by 11 inch shells from Admiral Scheer which hit her magazine and blew her up with great loss of life. The German destroyer and had to be scuttled and the task force less one of their number continued on.
Admiral Scheer sank the British cruiser Norfolk
Whilst men drowned in the Atlantic and ships felt the deep a great celebration was going on in Florence for GeneralFeldMarshal Erich Von Manstein leader of the Panzer Army Africa. For crossing the canal Hitler gave him a field marshal's baton and Mussolini declared him an honorary marshal of the Italian army. Manstein's words were humble and full of praise for the vast improvment and contribution of the Italian army.
The German people owe the King of Italy, Il Duce and her people a great debt. It is through the valiant efforts of her soldiers, sailors and fliers that the British empire has been sent telling blows. I do not relish the defeat of such a noble enemy as the British instead I relish the opportunity to command the splendid warriors of the Panzer Army Africa and preside over their victories for our homeland. A long campaign has been fought and there is still more blood that must touch the sands before we will have shaped the world as needed but I have no doubt our steel axis can handle all the challanges that lay ahead
The propaganda photo session turned out excellent and Manstein's face was on the cover of every newspaper in Europe. Hitler had brought along one of his favorite generals and an aquaintance of Manstein's along to the ceremony. GeneralDerPanzerTrupper Erwin Rommel was granted two hours with the Field Marshal to discuss some potential plans against the Soviet Union. The two Panzer Generals ended up speaking deep into the night and their joint wisdom would change the fundamental shape of what Barbarossa would become.
Action figures of Rommel and Manstein were created after their historic conference in Florence and very popular gifts for German children for Easter that year
to be continued...
your thoughts?
Last edited:
Brilliant! I like it, that you further combine the two TL's.
Some thoughts:
Do you really think Ciliax would let Renown run away? Especially Brinkmann would insist on going for the kill, since he had to watch the Prince of Wales disappear one year earlier.
And why would Norfolk engage the PB's in an artillery battle, that she cannot win? I rather think she would try shadowing the german group, like she did with Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. Norfolk should be able to outrun the PB's if necessary (31,5 to 29,5 knots).
But still awesome!
Some thoughts:
Do you really think Ciliax would let Renown run away? Especially Brinkmann would insist on going for the kill, since he had to watch the Prince of Wales disappear one year earlier.
And why would Norfolk engage the PB's in an artillery battle, that she cannot win? I rather think she would try shadowing the german group, like she did with Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. Norfolk should be able to outrun the PB's if necessary (31,5 to 29,5 knots).
But still awesome!
BlairWitch749
Banned
It was HMS Repulse that they encountered. They did chase her for a bit but came periolously close to air range of Canadian waters... to kill one ship was not worth sacrificing the task force to air attacks. They had also damaged her enough to put her in dry dock for a month further straining the Royal Navy so the encounter wasn't a total loss
The entire Royal Navy was put under new orders to destroy the raiders at any cost due to the carnage they were now inflicting on the convoys. Norfolk only detected Emden and the two destroyers which were about 10 miles ahead of Scheer and Lutzow. She engaged the smaller force first crippling the destoyer and damaging Emden. Lutzow and Scheer used the new radar jamming and rushed to protect their consorts and put Norfolk down from close range. I decided not to waste an entire chapter or half chapter on a small battle but that was what I had in mind. Glad you are enjoying
What kind of aircraft were based in Canada at that time, capable of being a serious threat to the task force?
From what I understand most aircraft stationed there were rather u-boat hunting aircraft. Could they really have been a threat to the task force?
BlairWitch749
Banned
B-24's were being sent the allies at this time and that aircraft featured significant anti ship capability I don't know how many were stationed in New Foundland and other parts of Canada at that time but threat was real enough. The B-26 was also starting to become available and this would have the ability to do serious damage to a naval task force
From Wiki:
B-24s were available to RAF Coastal command as sub-hunters in 1941. B-24s were available to RAF Bomber command as bombers in 1942.
I did not find any sources on whether or not aircraft were based in Canada at this point.
HOWEVER:
Bearing in mind that the British have been stretched to the limit by this point, are losing the Middle East, are looking at a Japanese rearmament and still have a quite active Luftwaffe over the Channel (since Barbarossa was not launched in 1942), I presume that they may not choose to "spare" some bomber-capable B-24s as sub-hunters in Canada and would rather have them in Europe or the Middle East as bombers.
There were still enough sub-hunters available. The problem with those, is that they were not a real threat to Kriegsmarine major vessels.
B-26s were offered to the Brits in 1942 under Lend Lease.
Still, I guess the Germans may not hunt the British down, bearing in mind how far from their bases they are, knowing that a critical damage on their ships may mean they will never get home.
B-24s were available to RAF Coastal command as sub-hunters in 1941. B-24s were available to RAF Bomber command as bombers in 1942.
I did not find any sources on whether or not aircraft were based in Canada at this point.
HOWEVER:
Bearing in mind that the British have been stretched to the limit by this point, are losing the Middle East, are looking at a Japanese rearmament and still have a quite active Luftwaffe over the Channel (since Barbarossa was not launched in 1942), I presume that they may not choose to "spare" some bomber-capable B-24s as sub-hunters in Canada and would rather have them in Europe or the Middle East as bombers.
There were still enough sub-hunters available. The problem with those, is that they were not a real threat to Kriegsmarine major vessels.
B-26s were offered to the Brits in 1942 under Lend Lease.
Still, I guess the Germans may not hunt the British down, bearing in mind how far from their bases they are, knowing that a critical damage on their ships may mean they will never get home.
Oops, my mistake
And on the sinking of the Norfolk: If you put it like that, I fully support the story
But it's not easy reading your mind on what is happening beyond your actual writingAll of the ships (ecxept the destroyer) have a range of more than 8000 nautical miles (~16.000 km), that should keep them afloat for some time.
BlairWitch749
Banned
If there was a serious German task force like Operation Vulture it isn't unreasonable for a couple of flights of b-24s to be based in New Foundland to cover the convoys as much as possible
It would either have to be a USAAF B-24 unit or Bombers from the UK would have to be sent to Canada as there was no operational B-24 unit in Canada at this time> I'm not saying that one might be formed as a result of the threat just that there was none availble or operational at the time.
BlairWitch749
Banned
Yea that is ok, basically they could do a lend lease shipment direct to canada and base the squadrons in new foundland to reduce the effectiveness of the Kreigsmarine battlegroup
In the upcoming naval encounter, could you include this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterseeboot_556 ? If the boat is still running, they might help Tirpitz where they couldn't help Bismarck.
BlairWitch749
Banned
for this tl they were assigned to full moon and sank a British destroyer. They are currently in Admiral Raeder's new scheme in the Atlantic
YAY
Hope you won't stay away from this for too long, I just love this timeline!
Hope you won't stay away from this for too long, I just love this timeline!
BlairWitch749
Banned
YAY
Hope you won't stay away from this for too long, I just love this timeline!
Research is required good sir...especially as I am only starting to study Rommel now and the operations of Army Group south in 1941.42 , I wont drop this completely it will just be slower
I accept that
So I'll just shut up now and wait for whatever you write next
So I'll just shut up now and wait for whatever you write next