Rome's opinon on Africa's west coast?

It originated in the Niger River basin. Its spread into the relevant parts of W. Africa very likely came later. How much later is up to debate. Again, I disagree with Jared about the commercial prospects of rice when far more convenient Roman N. Africa was already a net exporter of wheat and other grains.

The rice was first harvested 3,000-2,000 years ago and spread across the region. As I already said before, if by the off chance it didn't spread to Senegal, I'll just make it so that it spread slightly faster. And the point of harvesting the rice wasn't to feed the Empire, it was to simply add diversity to the Romans' available food. It's a different species of rice that the Romans had never tasted before.

And not to sound snarky (honestly) but I was directly asking Grey Wolf on his opinion of it. I feel like I should add a poll on the subject.
 
It originated in the Niger River basin. Its spread into the relevant parts of W. Africa very likely came later. How much later is up to debate. Again, I disagree with Jared about the commercial prospects of rice when far more convenient Roman N. Africa was already a net exporter of wheat and other grains.

My view is that rice's prospects, however strong/weak they might be, are better than the iron.

Yes, of course Rome had access to plenty of other grain. But rice can become a premium imported food crop even when there is plenty of access to other grains available, local or imported. We see that later in history (the Carolina rice exports to Britain, for instance).

As I said previously, though, this requires that (i) sufficient Roman upper class interest exists (or develops), and that, more importantly (ii) that there was not sufficient production in Egypt available (or upscalable) to supply Roman demand.

Obviously, all of this presupposes that Rome has already gone looking in the first place, mastered the difficult sailing conditions and techniques needed to reach so far down the West African coast, and so forth. Even if all of the above are satisfied, the hint of rice is not going to get Rome sailing down the coast in itself - but it might be enough to keep them coming back.
 
Obviously, all of this presupposes that Rome has already gone looking in the first place, mastered the difficult sailing conditions and techniques needed to reach so far down the West African coast, and so forth. Even if all of the above are satisfied, the hint of rice is not going to get Rome sailing down the coast in itself - but it might be enough to keep them coming back.

Which they would have done by settling the Canary Islands and Western Sahara for a couple decades. Do youu believe that they would have eventually explored south? If they made it to Sierra Leone, they would have discover palm kernel. Shouldn't be too long for them to discover diamonds after that.
 
My view is that rice's prospects, however strong/weak they might be, are better than the iron.

Yes, of course Rome had access to plenty of other grain. But rice can become a premium imported food crop even when there is plenty of access to other grains available, local or imported. We see that later in history (the Carolina rice exports to Britain, for instance).

As I said previously, though, this requires that (i) sufficient Roman upper class interest exists (or develops), and that, more importantly (ii) that there was not sufficient production in Egypt available (or upscalable) to supply Roman demand.

Obviously, all of this presupposes that Rome has already gone looking in the first place, mastered the difficult sailing conditions and techniques needed to reach so far down the West African coast, and so forth. Even if all of the above are satisfied, the hint of rice is not going to get Rome sailing down the coast in itself - but it might be enough to keep them coming back.

I agree that iron is a pretty weak motivator, all realities considered for purposes of the POD. I think a mix of various goods might work better than a single product. Add raw ingredients of valuable dyes into the mix. It is a valuable motivator for adding to an infrastructure to support voyages South. I very much agree with your last paragraph. Adding, that what applies to rice applies to any potential commodity. The trick is getting the hint to become something tangible enough to get an exploratory trip going in the 1st place.

I would suggest that given hints that the Carthaginians at least intermittently traded much further South than the Romans ever ventured OTL, that a POD in which the Carthaginian trade was not destroyed upon the end of the Punic empire, would facilitate their knowledge base and infrastructure being passed on to (or absorbed by) the Romans. (A story has it that Punic trade, which might have continued along the coast of Africa as far as the Gambia, after Hanno's expedition, consisted of coastal trading encounters on the beach, with each party leaving goods on the beach and adding or subtracting items until each party was satisfied. No permanent trading stations or colonies were involved. The colonies that Hanno was supposed to have set up apparently didn't take -- there isn't even a rumor of their existence later). This gives a Roman voyage to the region something more "real" at least to build on and a sense of what the region might offer, to give ideas to a suitably ambitious sponsor.
Let's even say that the Carthaginians had even been introduced to the rice in question in the course of their trading experiences, so the Roman's aren't going in blind.

My 2 denarii.
 
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Which they would have done by settling the Canary Islands and Western Sahara in a couple decades.

Longer, if the Phoenician knowledge base and the trading infrastructure is lost as per OTL. But see a POD idea above.

It took the far better equipped and motivated Portuguese much longer than a "couple decades" to do the equivalent OTL.

You're really reaching for it in the matter of Sierra Leone diamonds. They weren't even discovered until the 1930s.
 
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I believe your idea and mine can exist together in harmony, love-child. I admit my mistake with the diamonds. What would it take for Carthage's trade legacy to not be destroyed?

And for the love of God, can it be plausible for me for a Roman expedition to explore the Gold Coast?
 
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I believe your idea and mine can exist together in harmony, love-child. I admit my mistake with the diamonds. What would it take for Carthage's trade legacy to not be destroyed?

Different, less draconian treatment of Carthage in the ultimate Roman war with Carthage. Perhaps a less successful Hannibal could lead to that. For the life of me, I don't know (and I don't know if anyone knows) why the Carthaginian network was so comprehensively eradicated as the Romans did absorb the Greek trading networks (and those of other peoples) and even allowed Greeks to essentially continue to lead the Indo-Roman trade. So there is precedent for non-destruction. Perhaps the Romans were just too blinded by their hatred of the Punic civilization.

And for the love of God, can it be plausible for me for a Roman expedition to explore the Gold Coast?

I find it very difficult. Especially a continued presence. Disease alone would drop the Romans like flies. Perhaps the Romans can act through local proxies?

If the Romans proceeded something along the lines of the voyages sponsored by Henry the Navigator, incrementally, given enough time, sufficient intermediary rewards, advances in marine technology, advanced bases (Cape Verde islands are a logical addition, when discovered), maybe they can work their way down this far, either directly, or through someone else.
I say this provisionally -- the Portuguese knew something of Africa through the Muslim presence already there expedited by the numerous polities that had become established in West Africa. The Romans will lack the existence of the latter, especially.
 
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