Romanian-Hungarian War over Transylvania 1991
- Thread starter nastle
- Start date
Clipper747
Banned
There was a paperback book titled "Future Wars" that had a Romanian/Hungarian conflict scenario over Transylvania.
Clipper747
Banned
The one reason neither Romania or Hungary fought each other is because all they had to do is look across the border at the mayhem in Yugoslavia in 1991/92.
Yes nationalism was sky rocketing throughout all the former Communist countries but everyone used the disaster that was Yugo to temper nationalist zeal.
Yes nationalism was sky rocketing throughout all the former Communist countries but everyone used the disaster that was Yugo to temper nationalist zeal.
Cook
Banned
While historically Hungary ruled Transylvania, they never formed a majority of the population and between 1919 and 1991 their percentage of the population has been declining. In addition, when Hungary ruled the province there was a significant minority of German speaking people in Transylvania, they were expelled at the end of the end of World War Two.
Hungary was more likely to try to make a grab for the northern part of Vojvodina; Hungarians form a majority of the population in the north, historically it was part of Hungary proper and in 1991 the ethnic Hungarians were being persecuted by the Serbian administration.
Hungary was more likely to try to make a grab for the northern part of Vojvodina; Hungarians form a majority of the population in the north, historically it was part of Hungary proper and in 1991 the ethnic Hungarians were being persecuted by the Serbian administration.
Well that kinda reminds me, can Hungary intervene during the Yugoslav wars just because of the Bačka region?
Cook
Banned
Depends what you mean by can. Under International Law no. Hungary’s borders were defined by the Treaty of Trianon in 1920. If they unilaterally decided to revise the border in the south they’d immediately make the Rumanians, Slovakian and Austrian neighbours nervous. On the other hand, the Serbs weren’t making friends internationally with their behaviour in Kosovo and Bosnia at the time so it wouldn’t be a stretch for a Hungarian independence movement springing up in parts of Vojvodina to win sympathy in Hungary and the west, especially when the inevitably crackdown by the Serbian army occurs.
Clipper747
Banned
How would Hungary justify an invasion of Serbia? The Vojvodina is populated by a Serb majority.
I'm not familiar with any Serbian crackdown on ethnic Hungarians in that region.
On the other hand Ceaucescu's handling of the Hungarian minority in Transylvania amounted to a crackdown as he used it to whip up nationalist sentiment. Hungary did the same. It was a dangerous flashpoint that outscored any Vojvodina scenario.
I'm not familiar with any Serbian crackdown on ethnic Hungarians in that region.
On the other hand Ceaucescu's handling of the Hungarian minority in Transylvania amounted to a crackdown as he used it to whip up nationalist sentiment. Hungary did the same. It was a dangerous flashpoint that outscored any Vojvodina scenario.
Cook
Banned
The northern part of Vojvodina, close to the Hungarian border, has a Hungarian majority. And a Serbian crackdown would have occurred shortly after the first signs of any Hungarian separatism. Serbia’s grip on the other regions of Yugoslavia was crumbling in the 1990s, presenting a visible opportunity.
Transylvania doesn’t have a Hungarian majority overall and neither do the areas close to the Hungarian border.
Clipper747
Banned
That's a small area surrounding Subotica. Any idea of outside Hungarian involvement there is highly dubious at best. The mood amongst all the people in Vojvodina has always been amicable.
The Hungarian population in the border region of Satu Mare and Bihor form a majority as do the Transylvanian regions of Marghita, Covasna, and half of Mures.
No matter how you cut it between the two regions; Vojvodina or Transylvania the one that was more likely to see ethnic strife was Transylvania( which did in 1990). I doubt that the two countries would've gone to all out war unless the Romanians decided to purge the Hungarians from their homes for some reason.
I Blame Communism
Banned
Small clarification: some left after the war, but it was a gradual process. There was far less local hostility than in the Polish and Czech areas, and the Red Army wasn't, I understand, particularly bothered.
Ceauwhatsisname's regime made some spare cash by exporting the remaining German population to West Germany. They were put in sealed buses and sent west, and the Bonn government put cash down. Strange world.
Human traffic. An easy way to make a quick buck for the entrepreneuring dictatorship.
Well the thing could happen simuntainously with Yugoslavia. For example by late september Croatia was an all out warzone, Hungary and Serbia+JNA weren't in particulary good relations with the Hungarians since they sold over 50 000 Ak-47 to Croatia on the black market for 1/3 of the price, it is not beyond imagination that independant extremists groups which were sprouting all over the place back then start harrasing Hungarians in Vojvodina as "Ustaša-lovers" and "Fascists" not to mention that Hungarian nationals were ousted from their homes in Croatian part of Baranya along with their Croatian and Slovak neighbours by the local Serbs and JNA. So the Hungarian goverment decides to put a stop to it and intervenes. First in Croatian part of Baranya under guise of protecting Hungarians and ensuring a neutral presence. As that happens Romanians and Szekely whose relations in the early '90 were very low end up fighting each other, a trivial thing happens like a mugler shooting a member of another ethinc group, protests happen, police use brutal methods to dispers them, chaos breaks loose. So by December 1991 you have Croats(in Croatia and BiH)+Hungary and ethnic Hungarians in Yugoslavia and Romania vs Serbs (everywhere)+Romaina. In 1992 war spreads to BiH, in 1993 Croat-Bosniak war happenes as well as Serb-Romanian fallout. The civil war in Moldavia is added to whole matter and things escalate in Kosovo, Macedonia, Serbia-Bulgaria border, Macedonia-Bulgaria border, civil war in Albania and a standof between Romania and Bulgaria along the Danube.
Total chaos reigns for years to come with Western Allies chosing who will they support, post 1999 resurget Russia chosing who they will support and Turkey+the rest of the muslim world supporting Bosniaks. How the whole thing ends or even if it ends by today is hard to imagine.
P.S. Maybe a bit ASB but sparks down here have a tendecy to light huge confligrations
Total chaos reigns for years to come with Western Allies chosing who will they support, post 1999 resurget Russia chosing who they will support and Turkey+the rest of the muslim world supporting Bosniaks. How the whole thing ends or even if it ends by today is hard to imagine.
P.S. Maybe a bit ASB but sparks down here have a tendecy to light huge confligrations
MSZ
Banned
The possibility of Hungary intervening in Yugoslavia was actually quite serious in 1999 during the Kosovo Bombings by NATO - of which Hungary was at the time a member. This fact by itself - Serbia being attacked by an NATO country, and neighbouring another, could be a cassus belli. That Serbia was ruled by nationalists who weren't friendly with their minorities only made matters worse - I recall reading about that the hungarian government considered arming and training a militia in Vojvodina in case of Serbia starting an ethnic cleansing campaign in that province. (mind you, I can't give a source, it was a hungarian newspaper from a few years back, if someone can confirm this, it would be great.)
So if some kind of paramilitary organization outside of government control moved to Vojvodina in 1999, began attrocities and Hungary responding with movement of arms and military personel to the province, there is no telling what the Serbian government could do.
So if some kind of paramilitary organization outside of government control moved to Vojvodina in 1999, began attrocities and Hungary responding with movement of arms and military personel to the province, there is no telling what the Serbian government could do.
And also, is it plausible for a war between Slovakia and Hungary in the early 1990s?