Roman Timeline

I've decided to re-do my original Roman Empire AH . The premise (library of alexandria not destroyed, which butterflies into a successful roman conquest of Germania) and the general idea are the same, this version is just more detailed.

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This timeline diverges from ours in the winter of the year 47 BC. At that time, Julius Caesar, dictator of Rome, was fighting King Ptolemy XIII of Egypt. While in battle, Caesar's forces set fire to Ptolemy's fleet, anchored in the harbor of Alexandria. The fire soon spread to the Museum of Alexandria and a dockside warehouse full of scrolls ready for export. The Museum of Alexandria was actually more of a University and survived the fire fairly intact, except for the loss of its well known Library (which is more well known than the Museum now). If the wind was blowing in a different direction that day, the Library might very well have been saved.

The effects of this divergence might not be readily apparent and history would march on almost virtually identical to ours. After all, there is some dispute over whether or not the Library was actually destroyed at this time. So, it is safe to say that, for the most part, there would be no change to history for some time. Julius Caesar is still murdered on the Ides of March, 44 BC. The Civil Wars still continue until Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus defeats Marcus Antonius at the Battle of Actium and becomes the first Roman Emperor and assumes the name Augustus. His early reign procedes as it did in our time, until the year 4 BC.

In 4 BC, the Legate of Syria was one Publius Quinctillius Varus, who was finishing up his administration there. Varus was related to Augustus by marriage and was a good friend of the Emperor. In our history, he would go on to command the legions in Germania, get ambushed by a Germanian warlord named Armenius, thus ruining any hope of Roman expansion into the area. However, in this timeline, he decides to take a trip to Egypt before returning to Rome. While in Egypt, he takes a tour of the Nile and drowns. This event, though less remarkable than the saving of the Library, is ultimately more momentous.

With Varus out of the picture, in AD 6, Augustus will appoint Tiberius Claudius Nero, currently next in line to become Emperor, to pacify Germania Magna. Tiberius' nephew and adopted son Germanicus Julius Caesar, who happens to be next in line after Tiberius to become Emperor. While in Germania, they are also charged with the task of conquering the Marcomanni tribe residing in Bohemia. Though there were some difficulties, such as when the supposedly pacified tribes rose up while the bulk of the Roman forces were fighting the Marcomannni, by the time Augustus dies in AD 14, the area is largely secured and a string of forts line the Albis (Elbe) river. Germanicus is left behind to crush the Quadi, a tribe allied to the Marcomanni, while Tiberius returns to Rome to become Emperor.

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What'dya think so far?
 
Why is the non-destruction of the Library the POD?

Why does Tiberius Claudius Nero do much better than Publius Varus? Varus was known to be a competant commander who messed up in the Teutoburg.

Evidence: Commanders who are used to losing don't commit suicide after losing
 
I picked the Library for two reasons:
1) Its a literal butterfly event. I like to picture a butterfly flapping its wings a couple extra times and saving the library in the process.
2) Eventually, the sheer bulk of the knowledge contained there will help with progress and technology.

Germania Magna was supposedly a peaceful province that was pacified years before Varus shows up. Varus was sent there because he was a competent administrator who could handle minor military situations that might come up (he had previously been appointed to Africa and Syria, both peaceful border provinces as Germania was supposed to be). Varus commited suicide not because he wasn't used to losing (he didn't have a particularly amazing and eventful military career anyway), but because he screwed up so royally. Between Tiberius and Germanicus, both good commanders, things well wouldn've gone diferently. Also, I forgot to mention that the Pannonian revolt never happens, which also damaged Roman operations in Germania.
 
Elbe River is OTL west Germany, This also gives Rome south Denmark :) . How does this change the whole Scandia thing 1000 years on :confused:
 
The Elbe actually made up the border between West and East Germany for part of its length, but using it as a frontier will only give the Romans very small pieces of what was considered Denmark for very short time periods. The bulk of Denmark lies well north of the Elbe (trust me. I live here).

However, if the Romans had conquered Germania (and you really wouldn't need to change the commander, just give them a little more luck, though Tiberius would make a good choice) I would expect that to have strong repercussions for Scandinavia. After all, the connection to the Baltic is very short and I can see the Romans being much happier with this barely tidal inland sea than they were with the North Sea and Atlantic. Given the amber interest, Roman traders could range as far as Finland and Russia, Roman warships could project power into the area, and Germany itself could become a Roman breadbasket (once the agricultural methods from Gaul get exported). German lords are probably amenable to the life of settled landowning squires with military obligations of some sort. That kind of model would very likely appeal to Scandinavian chiefs as well. Maybe they'd petition to be let in?
 
carlton_bach said:
The Elbe actually made up the border between West and East Germany for part of its length, but using it as a frontier will only give the Romans very small pieces of what was considered Denmark for very short time periods. The bulk of Denmark lies well north of the Elbe (trust me. I live here).

However, if the Romans had conquered Germania (and you really wouldn't need to change the commander, just give them a little more luck, though Tiberius would make a good choice) I would expect that to have strong repercussions for Scandinavia. After all, the connection to the Baltic is very short and I can see the Romans being much happier with this barely tidal inland sea than they were with the North Sea and Atlantic. Given the amber interest, Roman traders could range as far as Finland and Russia, Roman warships could project power into the area, and Germany itself could become a Roman breadbasket (once the agricultural methods from Gaul get exported). German lords are probably amenable to the life of settled landowning squires with military obligations of some sort. That kind of model would very likely appeal to Scandinavian chiefs as well. Maybe they'd petition to be let in?

Would the Romans be interested in Scandinavia?
 
While the Roman built a line a forts and the Soldiers only crossed the Frointier to repond to attacks, the Merchants and Traders passed beyond. As such the influence of Rome traveled far past the offical frontier. if Rome gets to the Elbe,~0025~0050, the Roman Push north of the Danube [OTL Austria] would also be more sucessfull. While whe arn't talking Legions on the Bug or Volga rivers, the area would be penertated by Roman infulence. This would include Denmark, The Daneish Empire would Be a classical style "Empire".
 
Ok, here's our next update (I'm including part of the last paragraph of the last post, as I added a bit a information near the end, about how Germania Magna was organized).

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Though there were some difficulties, such as when the supposedly pacified tribes rose up while the bulk of the Roman forces were fighting the Marcomannni, by the time Augustus dies in AD 14, the area is largely secured and a string of forts line the Albis (Elbe) river. Germania Magna would now be organized into the provinces of Marcomania to the south and Cheruscia to the north. Germanicus is left behind to crush the Quadi, a tribe allied to the Marcomanni, while Tiberius returns to Rome to become Emperor.

Tiberius Claudius Nero ruled the Empire from AD 14 to AD 24, when he died of illness. His reign was most notable for the campaigns against the Quadi (conducted by Germanicus) and a major revolt in Achaea (Greece) and Macedonia. The campaign was a resounding success, resulting in the expansion of the Roman Empire to the Viadrus (Oder) river. Germanicus proved himself as a very capable and shrewd commander in the fall of AD 22. Several conquered tribes (most notably, the Suebi, Semnones, Chauci, and Boii), as well as some as yet unconquered tribes (such as the Teutones and Carpi) assaulted the main Roman force, at the small outpost of Verbonia, near the mouth of the Viadrus. The Legions only had the support of one tribe, ironically the Quadi, which they had been sent to conquer in the first place (one account states that Germanicus himself was saved in battle by the heroic efforts of one young Quadi warrior). Though the numbers and terrain were against him, Germanicus developed a clever strategy. He ordered his forces to not attack the Suebi or Chauci forces. As the battle wore on, the other tribes noticed this and grew suspicious. A few well placed spies later, and the coalition crumbled into attacking each other, making for an easy Roman victory. In fact, reports say that there were more coalition casualties from attacking each other than there were from the Romans.

Upon their surrender, all of the opposing tribes were essentially deported to the far reaches of the empire as slaves. The Quadi, meanwhile, were rewarded for their loyalty and many Quadi chieftains soon found themselves in important positions in the new province of Quadia (the southern region of the newly conquered territory). To their north would be Langobardia. Though the Langobardi were actually a tribe native to the west side of the Albis, many of them had joined the Legions in the Quadi campaign (though their absence during the battle of Verbonia is suspicious) and were now living in the area. Further to the north would be Anglia (Denmark). Though this region was still unconquered, Germanicus was preparing a punitive campaign against the Teutones and their Cimbri allies. This campaign would be largely complete by the time he was recalled to Rome in AD 24, mainly due to the fact that the bulk of the Teutones' forces had been destroyed at Verbonia and the assistance of the very compliant Angli tribe. Still, the region would not be completely pacified for a few more years.

Meanwhile, to the south, there were problems in Greece. The governor of Achaea, Tiberius Julius Magnus, was not very liked by the people. The main reason was that the taxes he imposed on the people were too high, though he had some personal traits that weren't very admirable either (one -almost certainly exaggerated- account states that he raped a hundred upper-class young ladies). Whatever the exact causes were, Julius Magnus soon found himself murdered by a mob in AD 19. Soon, all of Achaea, as well as much of Macedonia were in revolt. The revolt lasted for 4 years, finally being crushed in December of AD 22 when Thessalonica, the last rebel holdout, fell. The entire population was supposedly enslaved and replaced with people from Italia, though this is probably an exaggeration. Still, the city did become an enclave of Latin-speakers for awhile, in an almost universally Greek-speaking region. The revolt also kept any Legions in the area from assisting Germanicus at Verbonia. Other than that, the major significance of the revolt is that the Kingdom of Dacia to the north had supported the rebels. This would soon prove fatal for the Dacians.

However, before anything could be done, Tiberius died and Germanicus returned to Rome to become the third Emperor. Tiberius' reign was most noted for the actions of others (Germanicus of Julius Magnus), though he was a fairly competent ruler. However, he had the unfortunate fate to be emperor right after Augustus, arguable the greatest Rome ever saw. Had Tiberius ruled during later years, when the Empire was collapsing, he might have been more appreciated. As it was, he was regarded as an average, almost mediocre ruler. He left the Empire in the capable hands of Germanicus, who soon began plans to invade impetuous (and relatively wealthy) Kingdom of Dacia.

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DuQuense, I guess Denmark will be an actual part of the empire. :D
Oh, and about Legions on the Bug River, we just might see some on the Vistula River soon. ;)
 

Straha

Banned
as nice as it is to see you comment on the roman TL.. I'd like to see the different 20th century TL reposted and continued.... ;)
 

Diamond

Banned
SurfNTurfStraha said:
as nice as it is to see you comment on the roman TL.. I'd like to see the different 20th century TL reposted and continued.... ;)

I don't think Dominus would appreciate your hijacking his thread/TL to ask about mine... ;)

And r.e. my TL - would you rather see it posted quickly, or posted right? Be patient, I'm working on it.
 
Next update.

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Germanicus Julius Caesar ruled from AD 22 until AD 51. His reign would see the conquest of Dacia and the restoration of the Kingdom of Judea. He spent most of his reign outside of Rome, usually campaigning, often accompanied by his eldest son, Drusus Julius Caesar, leaving the day to day affairs in the city to his younger brother, Claudius Nero Germanicus, and his son, Nero Julius Caesar.

The Dacian campaign began in the year AD 24 as Germanicus led his legions over the Danube river into Dacia. Supporting him was an army of Quadi auxiliaries and Carpi allies. Allied with Dacians were Metatiastae, Costoboci, and the Roxolani. The Quadi and Carpi mainly faced the Metatiastae and the Costoboci, while the Romans fought the Dacians and Roxolani. The Dacians surrendered in the year 29, and the main Roman force went to assist their allies, while the remainder continued to fight the Roxolani. The barbarians manage to hold down the main force long enough for the Dacians to rise up and attack the smaller Roman army left behind against the Roxolani, and wipe them out. The situation seemed dire, but the Costoboci and Metatiastae were nearly defeated by this point, and they don't hold out much longer. By the time the Dacians and Roxolani reach them, the Romans, Quadi and Carpi are ready and waiting. The campaign again turns in favor of the Romans and the Dacians again surrender in 34, and the Roxolani in 37. The newly conquered territory is divided into the provinces of Dacia Superior and Inferior in the southern central region, Roxolania in the northeast, and Costobocia in the north-northwestern area, as well as the formalization of the Carpi lands into the province of Carpia. Germanicus spends the next two years fortifying the new border along the Tyras (Dniester) river before returning to Rome. Germanicus would leave Rome in AD 41, to conduct of tour of the border provinces of the empire, starting in Anglia and ending in Syria in AD 48.

While Germanicus was away, Claudius was responsible for most of the administrative details of the empire. Nero died in 30, due to excessive drinking (he died much the same way as did Attila the Hun). A close friend of Claudius and Germanicus was Herod Agrippa, a member of the royal family of Judea, a former ally of Rome that had been absorbed into the Empire. Herod's lifelong ambition was the independence of Judea, with him as King. His loyalty and amiable relations with the Imperial family would prove to be the means to this end. in AD 34, by Imperial decree, the Kingdom of Judea would be restored as a client state of Rome, though this new kingdom didn't actually include the region of Judea. The usurper Herod Antipas would try to claim the throne in AD 39, though he ultimately fails. Agrippa sends him as a prisoner to Rome, where Germanicus, back from Dacia, exiles him to Macromania. To shore up the Kingdom, Germanicus adds Peraea and Galilee, and later, in the year 48, adds Judea and Samaria. This restores the totality of the Kingdom of Judea and creates a staunchly allied client state out of what had been a troublesome and rebellious province.

Germanicus went down in history as one of Rome greatest military leaders, and a competent administrator, though the latter was mainly due to the actions of his brother, Claudius. His military exploits were on par with Julius Caesar himself, and Germanicus actually conquered more new territory for Rome than Caesar did. Germanicus left the empire to his son, Drusus Julius Caesar, whose reign would be cut tragically short.

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Comments?
 
Guess not. Well, here's the next installment.

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Drusus ruled Rome from late AD 51 to early AD 54. During his principate, King Herod would die, an agricultural revolution would be born in Cheruscia, and the Vandali would launch a major raid into Langobardia.

King Herod Agrippa died in AD 53. He saw to the restoration of the Kingdom and was loved by his people for it. His line would rule Judea for nearly 300 years, producing many good kings. Herod also persecuted the Christians in Judea with much vigor, as did many of his successors (often Christians were more persecuted by the Jews than they were by the Romans).

During AD 53, an Alexandrian by the name of Heron (or Hero) visited a friend in Cheruscia [just to note, nobody is sure when Heron actually lived. I've seen reports ranging from various times in the first century BC, to the second century AD. This timeframe is the most likely though]. Heron had recently invented the aeolipile, a primitive steam engine, and an overshot waterwheel (there is evidence that they existed previously, but Heron showed that overshot waterwheels were the most efficient). He also hoped to one day apply the aeolipile to the same use as a waterwheel, though he never did create a practical design (but filled the Library of Alexandria with various ingenious but flawed ideas and designs). Heron had been corresponding with his friend for some time and decided to visit him at his large villa. While there, Heron hears of his friend's troubles, which Heron, being the inventor he is, does his best to address them. Heron improves on the crop rotation method, has some waterwheels built on the villa, and invented the moldboard plow, to effectively work the soil. The failing villa soon becomes the most productive in the region, and the methods spread. Within a few years, the population of Roman Europe expands greatly and begins to truly be Romanized.

Also during this time, the Vandali had been raiding the border provinces, which finally prompted action on the part of Drusus. Though the raiders are defeated and sent running back beyond the Viadrus, Drusus is hit in the left eye by a stray arrow and dies in battle, snuffing out his plans to invade the Vandali.

Drusus' reign was fairly uneventful until the end, so it is difficult to judge what his ability. The principate would pass to his uncle, Claudius, who proved to be a surprisingly apt ruler.

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Any comments this time?
 
Matt Quinn said:
I assume the "Vandali" are our old friends the Vandals. Will we see them again?
You sir, are correct! The -i ending is simply one of the Latin plurals. You'll see them again soon. They did just kill the Emperor, after all.
 
Am I the only one (even though it was my idea) that thinks that having Hero start the agricultural revolution a bit of a stretch?
 
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