Roman "The Bloody Baron" Ungern von Sternberg survives

In OTL, Roman Ungern von Sternberg was a Russian WW1 veteran who split off into his own faction during the Russian Civil war and pretty much became a warlord who attacked both the Whites and the Reds while trying to form his own kingdom in Mongolia.

In short, he was one of the craziest madmen that lived during that period. Nicknamed The Bloody Baron, he instituted a reign of terror all across Mongolia during his short reigned dictatorship. Anyone who had different views (be they Bolsheviks, Jews or just plain guys from Siberia) was executed in the most barbaric methods (beheading, burning alive and the likes).
On top of that, he also believed himself to be the reincarnation of Genghis Khan :)eek:) and, during his stay in Mongolia, he had support from Bogd Khan as well as the Dalai Lama:eek::eek:.
If you need further proof of his madness, then I trust that this photo will help:
























Ungern-Sternberg-1920.jpg





After a short reign, the Bolsheviks managed to oust him thanks to two of his officers who sold him out and have him tried and executed.

Lets say that he somehow manages to consolidate his grasp over his Mongolian monarchy (if it is at all possible, considering the Red Army where pretty much hell bent on killing him), what possible effects would that have over the events that happened during that time?
 

The Vulture

Banned
Well, first he'd actually have to be some sort of diplomat and stop the Chinese from wanting to kill him (which they totally did). His idea of negotiating was to beat people with the flat of his sword until they agreed with him (no joke). Given that he had at most ten thousand men, I don't think his position against the Chinese warlords, the Bolsheviks, and the opposition within his own ranks is tenable. Honestly, OTL is probably the best case for this overpromoted madman.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Well, our Russian-German-Estonian-Mongolian war nut is kind of a famous topic on this forum. There's at least one abandoned TL with him taking over Russia and tries to conquer Asia.
 
Fine, how about we change things a little and he takes over the Baltic States. He'll have moar manpowe to work withr there, and the Baltics were able to hold their own to a degree in OTL.

Maybe the Bloody Baron thinks he's the reincarnation of some Estonian hero or Teutonic Knight.:D
 
Hmmm...while I'm not an expert on Baltic relations during the early 20th Century, I'm not so sure if anyone there will be as happy to lend him support. In OTL, the reason he became powerful was because of the Khan of Mongolia who gave him support and troops. Would he find anyone in the Baltics who would help him out?




Maybe the Bloody Baron thinks he's the reincarnation of some Estonian hero or Teutonic Knight.:D

Oh god!....a vision is coming to my mind!.......Vlad!.....Vlad Tepes!
 
He wouldn't last long in the Baltic states - he'll be crushed between the white forces moving from Latvia/Lithuania and the Reds, he only managed to gain a foothold in Mongolia because it was so far removed from the centres of power of the main forces in the region.
 
He wouldn't last long in the Baltic states - he'll be crushed between the white forces moving from Latvia/Lithuania and the Reds, he only managed to gain a foothold in Mongolia because it was so far removed from the centres of power of the main forces in the region.

Well strictly speaking he was on the side of the whites and my idea was for him to hold Estonia and Latvia with Lithuania being split between Sternberg and Poland.

If von Sternberg can make himself the most powerful ''white'' general in the region then he has it. People forget just how messed up the RCW was.

The Baltics were a sideshow too, not as much as Mongolia but still unimportant enough for the Red Army to largely ignore. Then passively accept their independance.
 
You mean Lord Protector.;)

So he thinks he's the reincarnation of Oliver Cromwell in Russia an with a ''von'' in his name. To Sternberg this would make sense.:D
 
Well strictly speaking he was on the side of the whites and my idea was for him to hold Estonia and Latvia with Lithuania being split between Sternberg and Poland.

If von Sternberg can make himself the most powerful ''white'' general in the region then he has it. People forget just how messed up the RCW was.

The Baltics were a sideshow too, not as much as Mongolia but still unimportant enough for the Red Army to largely ignore. Then passively accept their independance.

Yeah he was on the whites - but what I meant was being in the Baltic doesn't give him the same room to manouvre, if he starts going mental then they'll either remove him from his command or send forces against him. There's also the problem of a support base in the region - I don't think the twisted mix of ideas he had would lead to many followers round there.
 
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