Roman innovation.

Valdemar II

Banned
I was thinking of realistic discoveries which could have great effect on Rome and early Europe.

Earlier I have mentioned paper

But the blast furnace is also a possibility, in OTL it was developed before Christ in China, so it's a quite realistic discovery. What effect would a improvement in the quality and quentity of steel and iron have?

One of the more interesting I could see, would be earlier development and earlier spread of heavy plough, which could increase the Roman presence in North Europe.
 
I was thinking of realistic discoveries which could have great effect on Rome and early Europe.
I would say water-mill and all the technological applications that could be made, as, for example, water driven looms etc.

Compass could be a boost to navigation, as early and crude telescopes.

In agriculture, besides the heavy plough, I would consider the three-field rotation that could enhance production.
 
Following the blast furnace, you could theoretically have a working steam engine. But, as repeatedly asked on this forum, why would you use that when you have slaves?

Also, chemistry is possible with Roman technology. China, from what I know, didn't develop much technologically before the chance discovery of gunpowder. Why not black powder discovered by a Roman alchemist?
 
What would the effect have been?

Not much. The traditional theoryw as that it hurt the horse and made it impossible for it to be breathe deeply; but more modern (and I don't mean done in the 2000s, this is relatively old news) suggest it worked fine.

The moldboard plow, perhaps?

More extensive water mills? But we know that by the 4th/5th century they were used for cutting stone and marble, and common enough to be mentioned in 4th century price edicts...

The printing press is the obvious one, of course.

China, from what I know, didn't develop much technologically before the chance discovery of gunpowder. Why not black powder discovered by a Roman alchemist?

AAARGH!

I will simply say that gunpowder was the product of a complex alchemical tradition which, while the Roman Empire had to an extent, was far less prevalent. Though I expect carlton to come along any moment and correct me.
 
Since the topic starter was looking specifically for technology to expand Roman rule into northern Europe, how about yogurt?

Romans did not have the lactose tolerant gene mutation that northern Europeans have, at least not in the same frequency. They were at a disadvantage when it came to surviving on a purely diary based diet as was sometimes necessary in the inhospitable climate of the north where Roman crops were less reliable.

Yogurt on the other hand is digestible by anyone. Every Roman would be able to eat it without getting the runs.
 
Also, chemistry is possible with Roman technology. China, from what I know, didn't develop much technologically before the chance discovery of gunpowder. Why not black powder discovered by a Roman alchemist?

I have a mental image of a Roman engineer standing before the Alps, ominously muttering "Straight roads? Right."
 
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Since the topic starter was looking specifically for technology to expand Roman rule into northern Europe, how about yogurt?

Romans did not have the lactose tolerant gene mutation that northern Europeans have, at least not in the same frequency. They were at a disadvantage when it came to surviving on a purely diary based diet as was sometimes necessary in the inhospitable climate of the north where Roman crops were less reliable.

How do we know the Romans were lactose-intolerant?

Anywa, I'm not sure that letting them eat milk helps them. It' seasier to eat the grain you feed a cow, no?
 
More complex navigation and sailing technology would be good. I mean, I'm not saying they're gonna make Napoleonic-era frigates, but less reliance on galleys would be good, and a good way to be able to control Northern Europe, if at least the coasts. They could move armies and supplies around the Atlantic and North Sea much easier and resupply forts and such. It'd be a good way to bring together the faraway parts of the empire.

Gunpowder wouldn't really make an appreciable difference, IMO, for a really long time (OTL people didn't use it for their main weapons until hundreds of years after it was invented), except in terms of siege warfare.
 
Horse collar (instead of choking throat-girth)

What would the effect have been?

Not much. The traditional theoryw as that it hurt the horse and made it impossible for it to be breathe deeply; but more modern (and I don't mean done in the 2000s, this is relatively old news) suggest it worked fine.
Really? I had heard that the horse collar was a great boon to peasant farmers, since before its introduction they had to rely on generally more expensive and slower oxen for plowing and the like. The introduction of the horse collar to peasant farmers, then, was kind of like the early 20th-century introduction of faster and cheaper internal combustion tractors that would replace the slower and more cumbersome steam tractors.

The horse collar, then, would allow peasants much greater agriculture production, resulting in surplus goods, greater incomes for the rural lower class, and greater impetus for trade.
 
Really? I had heard that the horse collar was a great boon to peasant farmers, since before its introduction they had to rely on generally more expensive and slower oxen for plowing and the like. The introduction of the horse collar to peasant farmers, then, was kind of like the early 20th-century introduction of faster and cheaper internal combustion tractors that would replace the slower and more cumbersome steam tractors.

The horse collar, then, would allow peasants much greater agriculture production, resulting in surplus goods, greater incomes for the rural lower class, and greater impetus for trade.

The history of technology is in what, among professional historians, is generally referred to as a state of being a fucking mess.

Seriously.

It was all much easier in the fifties and sixties when everybody knew that a later technology had to be superior by virtue of replacing the older one. If this replacement coincided - or appeared to coincide - with a major change in the tide of history, then clearly it must have been a decisive factor (see stirrups and the Huns). If you've lived through the industrial revolution's tail end, it is a pretty intuitive idea, but unfortunately it doesn't actually seem to be like that.

The horsecollar assumption suffers from the fact that we still don't really know what the ancient harness actually was like. We have reasonable approximations, but from the extant data points you can build both something that will kill your horse and something not much inferior to a collar.

Recently, it has been theorised that the adoption of horses over oxen for traction had nothing whatsoever to do with the collar - its introduction is coincidental, but unrelated - and was instead motiovated by increased productivity of grain farming. Horses are more focused, faster, more biddable and more flexible than oxen, all of which makes them the favoured choice, but they eat grain, so a certain productivity was required before using them for agricultural labour paid off.

Horses in medieval Europe also replaced mules and donkeys in a lot of roles. Parse that with a Whig model...

I am firmly convinced stirrups are overrated (I have seen an armoured rider on a Camarque horse saddled Roman-style execute a couched lance attack on an 80-kg sack on a mock horse and unseat it - usual caveats about reconstruction apply, see abover - no, we don't really know how a Roman saddle was constructed).

I am also not sold that widespread watermills were a medieval innovation.

I do not buy the explanation that slavery stifled innovation because it would seem to apply only to the Romans (it's not like the hellenistic world did not practice slavery, and medieval Europe's most progressive areas were also those where chattel slavery was most common).

But that's neither here nor there. All of these things would be interesting for the Romans. Yoghurt I suspect they had - at least, that is what 'melca' appears to be. And lactosae intolerance is not a big deal among the Mediterranean population today, so I doubt it was then. In evolutionary terms, 2000 years is nothing.

What I would think A really interesting innovation for Rome to have would be proper statistics. We have some surviving economic documentsw and administrative files, but they are often fairly unsophisticated. I am not sure whether remedying this would require Indian nbumerals or not - I rather suspect not, given how much yopu can do with an abacus and geometric solutions - but it would require a sophisticated understanding of the universe of numbers. A Roman world that understands things like tax return curves, investment returns, opportunity costs, statistically relevance, confidence intervals, risk premium calculation and such could be a genuinely frightening prospect.
 
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