Roman Fleet stranded on the shores of the New World massive Storm

ar-pharazon

Banned
So okay around 100 AD or so there is a massive Roman fleet in the Atlantic-complete with at least 3-4 legions, specialists, high ranking generals etc...

There is some massive storm that carries the fleet across the Atlantic to I dunno the shores of modern North Carolina. Beaching the ships and scattering them from the coast of OTL North Carolina to as far south as Florida. More than a few men perish in the waves but through luck and grit they persevere till they land on unfamiliar shores.

Can the stranded Roman's successfully colonize the new world?

In this scenario the ships are as good as useless most wrecked beyond repair.

Note: I acknowledge this is extremely unlikely but it's not impossible.
 
Depending on how spread out they are, they might be able to survive for a time, but colonization? Completely out of the question.

At best, theyll be absorbed into the native populations
 
So okay around 100 AD or so there is a massive Roman fleet in the Atlantic-complete with at least 3-4 legions, specialists, high ranking generals etc...

There is some massive storm that carries the fleet across the Atlantic to I dunno the shores of modern North Carolina. Beaching the ships and scattering them from the coast of OTL North Carolina to as far south as Florida. More than a few men perish in the waves but through luck and grit they persevere till they land on unfamiliar shores.

Can the stranded Roman's successfully colonize the new world?

In this scenario the ships are as good as useless most wrecked beyond repair.

Note: I acknowledge this is extremely unlikely but it's not impossible.
1. How much supplies does these legions actually have on their ships? Nobody expects to blown so far off course
2. How long did it take for the ships to reach the new world? Depending on the length, the romans would have resorted to cannibalism to keep themselves alive.
3. Where did these ships set course from?
 
Well, 3-4 Legions is 15,000 to 20,000 men, so they could do some damage, even if relatively spread out. 1st, they will have horses and pigs with them, which will change the course of the New World care what happens. Second, if they land iot North America, many will probably starve to death unless really spread out. In South America, there is probably some Olmec-Ish civilation that could support those numbers, through conquest or trade for mercenary services. I think the Romans, however, would do better to sell their services than try to conquer. Either way, some would survive and influence mesoamerican civalization, probably princiapply by introducing metallurgy, but I could see their influence being minor (If the Romans try to go their own way, conquer.) or being major (If they accept a role as mercinaries, and use the time bought through service to learn how to survive in a new enviroment)
 
How would a Roman fleet even survive a storm that would push them that far west? And a fleet needed for 4 legions, would need to be huge, and knowing the romans would be dependent on coastal bases for their supplies, if the fleet didn't ended up in the bottom of the ocean because of the storm, they would be all dead by scurvy or starvation long before they got to the Americas.

This is probably one of the most commons WIs but it's also an impossible one, Roman ships simply weren't designed to survive a crossing of the Atlantic.
 
How would a Roman fleet even survive a storm that would push them that far west? And a fleet needed for 4 legions, would need to be huge, and knowing the romans would be dependent on coastal bases for their supplies, if the fleet didn't ended up in the bottom of the ocean because of the storm, they would be all dead by scurvy or starvation long before they got to the Americas.

This is probably one of the most commons WIs but it's also an impossible one, Roman ships simply weren't designed to survive a crossing of the Atlantic.

It's probably more ASB, than ATL, but might as well roll with it. Weird things do happen, and its probably not scientifically impossible, even if improbable. (Someone does win that 500 Million lottery afterall. You can't just prented they don't exist)
 
It's probably more ASB, than ATL, but might as well roll with it. Weird things do happen, and its probably not scientifically impossible, even if improbable. (Someone does win that 500 Million lottery afterall. You can't just prented they don't exist)

But how would they survive the crossing? The fleets were designed to act near the coast they used coastal bases to ressuply so any fleet won't have enough supplies to do the crossing and the ships were unstable, they were designed to be combat platforms not ocean going vessels. If they aren't all sunk because of the storm, they will be dead by lack of supplies, just look at the devastating effect scurvy had on the crews crossing the Atlantic in the 16th and 17th centuries and they were prepared to do the crossing, the Romans aren't.
 
But how would they survive the crossing? The fleets were designed to act near the coast they used coastal bases to ressuply so any fleet won't have enough supplies to do the crossing and the ships were unstable, they were designed to be combat platforms not ocean going vessels. If they aren't all sunk because of the storm, they will be dead by lack of supplies, just look at the devastating effect scurvy had on the crews crossing the Atlantic in the 16th and 17th centuries and they were prepared to do the crossing, the Romans aren't.

They get blown to the Canaries, rebuild and try to sail home, only to be blown to Bermuda by another storm, rebuild and tru to sail home, only to be blown to the Caribbean, rebuild and try to sail home, only to be Blown to Meso-America. There, 500 Million in the banks, and a navigator(s) who will live in infamy. , At best, only half of them make it through these storms of ironic tragedy, so we're saying 2-3 thousand rather than 3-5 thousand.
 
They get blown to the Canaries, rebuild and try to sail home, only to be blown to Bermuda by another storm, rebuild and tru to sail home, only to be blown to the Caribbean, rebuild and try to sail home, only to be Blown to Meso-America. There, 500 Million in the banks, and a navigator(s) who will live in infamy.

So a fleet that can barely survive one storm as to survive 4, and do a direct 4600km trip from the Canaries to Bermuda...mate they will be dead long before halfway to Bermuda.

4 legions, 20,000 men plus 20,000 auxiliary, the ration of each soldier is 1/1.5 kg of grain per day, plus oil or lard, plus wine, meat, etc...grain alone for the army, fleet personal not included, would be at 40,000 to 60,000 kg per day.

Ignore the post I already deleted, the one with the galley speed and time it would take, I'm tired and fucked up the math, I will redo this after getting some sleep.
 

Maoistic

Banned
The scenario of a freaking 2nd century Roman ship passing the entire Atlantic belongs in the ASB section. In real life, the ship would have sank before even getting half way through the ocean.
 
I don't want to go into the nightmare scenario, the slow drift westward, the mutinies, the un-Roman multiday periods of panic and fear...but assuming a few captains and generals kept their heads, and that a few fellows knew enough about deepwater fishing and nutrition, let's say 3,000 men on nine ships survive the trip, in two groups, one arriving at the island of Guadalupe (has a really talented leader), the other at the mouth of some river on the continent of South America (has a literary guy with 40 scrolls of important Ancient literary works). In 108 AD. Now what?
 

Md139115

Banned
Here’s the thing. The Roman Army following the Civil War was barely above 40 legions, most of them being on the frontiers (its worth noting that the Teutoberg Massacre wiped out a full trnth of the Roman Army at the time). So Rome never would have concentrated such a force together unless it was planning to invade someone. As I recall, the only invasion they ever launched with those kind of numbers on the Atlantic were the invasions of Britain. Also, the emperor probably would be in personal command of such a host.

Rather curiously, the numbers work out in your favor on the invasion size - in 54 BC, Julius Caesar launched a raid with five legions, and in 43 AD, Claudius launched his with four legions. Now you just need a plausible way to get a force of boats in the English Channel to get royally blown out to sea, and not starve to death.
 
Well, 3-4 Legions is 15,000 to 20,000 men, so they could do some damage, even if relatively spread out. 1st, they will have horses and pigs with them, which will change the course of the New World care what happens. Second, if they land iot North America, many will probably starve to death unless really spread out. In South America, there is probably some Olmec-Ish civilation that could support those numbers, through conquest or trade for mercenary services. I think the Romans, however, would do better to sell their services than try to conquer. Either way, some would survive and influence mesoamerican civalization, probably princiapply by introducing metallurgy, but I could see their influence being minor (If the Romans try to go their own way, conquer.) or being major (If they accept a role as mercinaries, and use the time bought through service to learn how to survive in a new enviroment)
I doubt it.Roman armies survive through support by the infrastructure of the Roman state.By living as mercenaries,discipline will undoubtedly break down soon enough and the army will probably be divided into different groups and thus be defeated in detail.The general in charge will want to quickly takeover some territory,acclaimed Imperator by the lot and then found their own state.They have the martial ability to take over the same way the Conquistadors did--and their chances of succeeding is actually much greater,considering they have far greater numbers.Plus,whatever diseases they are carrying will most likely decimate the local native population.

Considering the support groups usually attached to the Roman army units and the versatility of the Roman army,they will probably succeed in re-creating Rome in the Western hemisphere.
 
They get blown to the Canaries, rebuild and try to sail home, only to be blown to Bermuda by another storm, rebuild and tru to sail home, only to be blown to the Caribbean, rebuild and try to sail home, only to be Blown to Meso-America. There, 500 Million in the banks, and a navigator(s) who will live in infamy. , At best, only half of them make it through these storms of ironic tragedy, so we're saying 2-3 thousand rather than 3-5 thousand.
Somebody's gonna kill that navigator
 

Kaze

Banned
The scenario of a freaking 2nd century Roman ship passing the entire Atlantic belongs in the ASB section. In real life, the ship would have sank before even getting half way through the ocean.

Tell that to the Vikings then. Their ships were not designed for long open ocean travel, but somehow they managed to carry Lucky Leif all the way to the New World. Of course Lucky Leif did have some help with the fact that Norway to Iceland - you have Scotland to stop in; then Iceland to the New World - you have Greenland to stop in.

The Romans can in theory get to the Canaries, but why go to the New World in the first place? At the time the Pharaoh's canal was still in operation - going to India, Vietnam, or China is far more useful for the Romans.
 
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