Roman Colonization Of The Americas
- Thread starter WrappedInShadows
- Start date
I have been thinking about this for a while and have I think a possible way for this to happen.
Some time in the 100's AD a ship heading to Britannier is blown far out to sea in a storm eventually reaching North America. After going ashore to reprovision and refit they set off and manage to return to the Empire though loose most of their crew to scurvy.
The captain writes down the tale in a journal which is passed down the familly.
Starting 30 years later his heirs journey west as a right of passage paid for by Whale oil and latter on Maple syrup.
In the chaos of the late 4th century the current head of familly begins to plan for the worst intending if Brittannia becomes untenable to start a new colony on Long Island. He starts taking the heirs of a number of local famillies with him on his Bi yearly journeys west. This continues even after his death.
In 450 when everything has gone to hell the families take a fleet of 10 ships to long island to begin settlement with a further ten ship loads coming each year for the next 15 years when they decide to end all large scale contacts with Brittannia, instead sending only the occasional ships to trade.
I realise this borders on ASB but it is not impossible. Roman Corbitas would be capable of such a journey and the Romans did use for and aft rigs on some of their shipping so could sail close to the wind. The chief difficulty in navigating the North Atlantic would be the lack of a compass but the Norse showed it was possible to do without it.
Some time in the 100's AD a ship heading to Britannier is blown far out to sea in a storm eventually reaching North America. After going ashore to reprovision and refit they set off and manage to return to the Empire though loose most of their crew to scurvy.
The captain writes down the tale in a journal which is passed down the familly.
Starting 30 years later his heirs journey west as a right of passage paid for by Whale oil and latter on Maple syrup.
In the chaos of the late 4th century the current head of familly begins to plan for the worst intending if Brittannia becomes untenable to start a new colony on Long Island. He starts taking the heirs of a number of local famillies with him on his Bi yearly journeys west. This continues even after his death.
In 450 when everything has gone to hell the families take a fleet of 10 ships to long island to begin settlement with a further ten ship loads coming each year for the next 15 years when they decide to end all large scale contacts with Brittannia, instead sending only the occasional ships to trade.
I realise this borders on ASB but it is not impossible. Roman Corbitas would be capable of such a journey and the Romans did use for and aft rigs on some of their shipping so could sail close to the wind. The chief difficulty in navigating the North Atlantic would be the lack of a compass but the Norse showed it was possible to do without it.
For a story that I worked on during High School, the Romans did discover the Americas, but didn't do much with them. They had a fort or two on the coast which were abandoned after a decade or so, and mostly held little interest in the area.
What they DID do, however, was start a policy of loading troublesome Gallic tribes and others resistant to Roman rule onto boats and shipping them across the Atlantic, so that on they either died en route or were alive on the other side of the Atlantic, about as out-of-sight, out-of-mind as you can get.
What they DID do, however, was start a policy of loading troublesome Gallic tribes and others resistant to Roman rule onto boats and shipping them across the Atlantic, so that on they either died en route or were alive on the other side of the Atlantic, about as out-of-sight, out-of-mind as you can get.
The big factor against this for me isn't logistics and navigation but 'why'?
There are broad swathes of Eurasia-Africa which are much more accessible and useful to the Romans that are inhabited by people of a similar level to the Native Americans. Why would Rome bother with land way over the ocean rather than the nearby land?
There are broad swathes of Eurasia-Africa which are much more accessible and useful to the Romans that are inhabited by people of a similar level to the Native Americans. Why would Rome bother with land way over the ocean rather than the nearby land?
The penal colony is a cool idea, but I think that many Romans would consider that a loss of slaves. After all why ship a rebellious Gaul to America when you can have them work in the fields or mines?
Well, canaries.
They were unhabited when the Romans first landed there IIRC.
A penal colony is the only sensible use I can think of.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Well, canaries.
They were unhabited when the Romans first landed there IIRC.
A penal colony is the only sensible use I can think of.
There is a theory that the Guanches were descendants from a prison population abandoned there by King Juba II of Numidia so I suppose they can use that as a place to dump prisoners though it is mighty far out to put your common criminal. Now political exile is something different.
Not as hard to do as might be thought. Carthage was exploring Africa beyond the Canary Islands (Hanno) and may have reached as far as modern Cameroon, if the Romans attempt voyages there to expand trade and look for gold or other resources they might colonize a few areas as island settlements or continental outposts. Boats following the currents might be swept out into OTL Brazil (itself named for a mystical island) with the possibility of Roman colonies in the coastal regions. With time they can move north into the Caribbean and south into the Pampas, perhaps bringing livestock with them. Intermingling with the locals is inevitable and leads to a uniquely New World populace in some cases. Romans figure out how to get back and bring new foods/goods with them. A flourishing trade starts that causes improvements in nautical technology, perhaps Rome ends up settling OTL South Africa and Madagascar as well. The Empire collapses per OTL about 2-4 centuries later but in this case there are already large colonies in Southern Africa, OTL Brazil, OTL Caribbean, OTL Argentina, and maybe OTL Angola or East Africa as well. The local populations slowly combine as these colonies are isolated for centuries and develop independently only to find each other again 3-5 centuries later...
So how exactly does a ship bound for Britannia survive a storm that would blow it three thousand miles off course?
And then, when the ship gets there, how does the crew know how to get back? Or do they get another convenient massive storm that renders it irrelevant that they are without any idea where they are relative to home?
A rite of passage? "Sail in to the unknown that nearly got grandpappy killed, with no idea where you are relative to home once you get there and sheer luck being all that kept him alive"?
Seriously?
That's taking far fetched pretty far. And whale oil and male syrup don't justify it.
Spanish accounts actually describe the natives' weapons as piercing mail pretty often and occasionally even denting plate. Then there were their countermeasures against guns as well.
amphibulous
Banned
The only ways in which Rome was more advanced than Spain are completely irrelevant to actually crossing the bloody Atlantic! Really - how can you even remotely think that roads are relevant??
amphibulous
Banned
Yes: disposing of potential slaves in the most expensive way possible makes perfect sense. Because crucifying a few troublemakers, sending the rest of the adult males to the mines or latifunda, and raping the women before selling them and the children off would have been just un-Roman!
Really: Roman civilization was based on the idea of enslaving any foreigner who looked at you funny, and using as much violence as required to achieve this. Unless you understand this, nothing about Rome will make sense.
I get the feeling that the romans didn't want to hide their criminals away where nobody can see them. Their idea of punishment was either get use out of them in terms of manual labor, entertainment (colosseum fights), and sending a message to others (crucifixion).
Exile is an attested punishment in Rome, though it was essentially political upmarket stuff, as in getting troublemakers who it wasn't expedient to kill somwhere they could do no harm. However, it seems to me that they would not feel the need for a penal colony.
amphibulous
Banned
You forgot "Convince a crew to follow you in doing this, instead of beating you you to death and saying you fell overboard."