Even if we assume that a roman fleet makes it to a suitable place in the Americas, where there is enough deer to hunt and rich fishing grounds so that they don't starve in the first few month and that there are enough local women so that they can intermarry and reproduce, they most likely will simply blend into the existing local population within no more than 2 to 3 generations. Some heavily changed latin loanwords might survive together with the adoration of syncretistic roman-mayan deities, but both would be completely unrecogizable for european explorers when they arrive in the late 15th and 16th century. The language of their descendants would be no more Latin than the language of medieval Normandy was Norse. But even if they somehow manage to retain their Latin (as a superstrate language), it would be pretty unintelligible to any european explorer, not only because it would be heavily influenced by the original local substrate tongue, but also because it wouldn't be based on Classical Latin, but on the Vulgar Latin vernacular of the sailors. Ad at least 12 centuries of independent development and the result is at best as intelligible as romanian to portuguese or danish to english.
Assume they can build up their population faster than the natives can recover, invade, and reconquer them, they could get a stable microculture going. Trinidad?
Umm, not sure where you're getting some of this. Their navigation skills weren't good enough to cross the open ocean for one thing. Columbus had a lot of trouble over a thousand years later in way better ships with better technology and seamanship. Going up the coast from Rome to Britain is one thing, crossing an entire ocean is something else entirely. Nor is there any reason whatsoever for them to have crossed at all. They don't know anything is out there, they have no evidence to believe there is land out there, anyone who does believe would be considered a lunatic (Columbus was considered stupid in his time, and really was a bit stupid), and they would probably not be the kind of person who can get a hold of multiple sea-worthy ships to make a crossing to a land nobody has so much as thought of, with skills not good enough to cross an ocean, and no reason to do this at all. An explorer looking for Atlantis is not a good excuse, they'd still be considered wacky, and even if they all did believe in Atlantis they also remember that Atlantis sank beneath the waves. And even if the Romans did miraculously get there, they are not coming back. They are in a land where they are seriously outnumbered and unprepared for. If they land in Mexico, Teotihuacan call wipe them out with ease. If they land further to the north or south of Mexico, either the winter or the jungle will get rid of them in time, or they assimilate with locals and become part of them, the only difference being the color of their skin. It happened OTL, whites who joined the tribes and stuff didn't change the tribes at all.So, to sum things up:
The Romans had ships which technically could have crossed the Atlantic and back.
Their navigation skills may or may not have been adequate.
We have no evidence of such a crossing.
If a whole fleet of Roman ships had reached the Americas,
the crew could have colonized parts of the area but after a few generations
neither their descendants nor their language would have been recognizable.
But there would have been Roman cultural traces among the natives.
Umm, not sure where you're getting some of this.
And the vikings were more well-prepared than the Romans were! At least the vikings were good sailors and fighters and used to wintery conditions. But in the end, the only legacy of Vinland was some interesting archaeological remains and a cool story.Right. Look at what happened to Vinland.
If they bring smallpox, chickenpox, goats, bees, and a selection of seeds, they can conquer a reasonably large island. Assume they can build up their population faster than the natives can recover, invade, and reconquer them, they could get a stable microculture going. Trinidad?
Crappy, phosphorus contaminated iron is still better than whatever the natives are using.
Umm, not sure where you're getting some of this. Their navigation skills weren't good enough to cross the open ocean for one thing. Columbus had a lot of trouble over a thousand years later in way better ships with better technology and seamanship. Going up the coast from Rome to Britain is one thing, crossing an entire ocean is something else entirely. Nor is there any reason whatsoever for them to have crossed at all. They don't know anything is out there, they have no evidence to believe there is land out there, anyone who does believe would be considered a lunatic (Columbus was considered stupid in his time, and really was a bit stupid), and they would probably not be the kind of person who can get a hold of multiple sea-worthy ships to make a crossing to a land nobody has so much as thought of, with skills not good enough to cross an ocean, and no reason to do this at all. An explorer looking for Atlantis is not a good excuse, they'd still be considered wacky, and even if they all did believe in Atlantis they also remember that Atlantis sank beneath the waves. And even if the Romans did miraculously get there, they are not coming back. They are in a land where they are seriously outnumbered and unprepared for. If they land in Mexico, Teotihuacan call wipe them out with ease. If they land further to the north or south of Mexico, either the winter or the jungle will get rid of them in time, or they assimilate with locals and become part of them, the only difference being the color of their skin. It happened OTL, whites who joined the tribes and stuff didn't change the tribes at all.
Would they, though? Smallpox and chickenpox would probably be burnt out on long oceanic voyage, wouldn't they? You probably need repeated contacts for the diseases to make the jump. And in the 'blown off course' scenario, your goats and seeds are probably all eaten. Dunno why you'd have bees onboard either.
If they survive, they are still going to be wiped out by the whites from 1492 onwards.
And I would like to point out that the Pacific was settled with watercraft and navigation much much more primitive than what the Romans had available to them.
Quite. Disease is not going to be an issue here.Smallpox and chickenpox would probably be burnt out on long oceanic voyage, wouldn't they? You probably need repeated contacts for the diseases to make the jump.
Ummm... Much of their food is likely seeds. Wheat, barley, oats, whatever. Sure, some might be in flour form (unlikely) or baked into biscuit-oids, but IIRC the diet of the roman soldier involved a lot of porridge made each day from grain...And in the 'blown off course' scenario, your goats and seeds are probably all eaten. Dunno why you'd have bees onboard either.
To somehow reach the Azores would be a good beginning.
But suppose a fleet by some fluke ends up lost in the Caribbean. First of all a fleet probably has the numbers to maintain long-term genetic diversity , especially as sailors tend to be predominately male so we can effectively double the number accounting for native wives, more if they settle for more than one women. So it should be sustainable as it gets above the 500 pop. min. needed for long term genetic diversity.
Agriculture:
But we can take a few stabs at it, very likely that there are people who farmed on the fleet, while perhaps not all of the crops from Europe were stored we can effectively assume a good ratio for something like an entire fleet. Let's say no perishables, perhaps some dried fruit seeds but that would be a fluke and unintentional . We can almost be assured of hardy staple foods like grains, millet, barley and hemp. Perhaps some pulses like peas, chickpea and lentil. For this case let's say peas and chickpeas made it across.
Husbandry:
Now having pigs ,chickens , and goats on ships is a common sight, perhaps horses and oxen but its less likely to occur and to occur in large numbers. For this case let's say that horses made it across but in low numbers and any descendants had a fair chance of genetic disorders limiting their worth.
Writing:
Rather unlikely, given how sailors tend to be illiterate we can only hope that some of the few higher-class professions know it. But given the lack of immediate general use the most we can expect is a small guild of administrators.
First Contact:
The native population of North America is around the tens of millions, the carribean is around the thousands so no existential challenge for the Romans.
Perhaps the Roman's greatest advantage: Smallpox, The Flu, Measles, Pertussis, Malaria are bound to ravage the Islands upon first contact, making it exceedingly simple for the Romans to attain control.
ship building, perhaps, but they actually had better navigational skills than you give them credit for. they actually used currents/waves to find islands, not just stars. remember the Pacific islanders did find and colonize the Hawaiian islands in the middle of the Pacific.
Also, constellations and stars change depending on which side of the equator you are on.
Take into account the difference in estimates of World population for the period.:
*Estimates for the World Population in AD 14, at the time of Augustus' death, vary. Between the low estimation point of 170 million people in total to high estimation point of 330 million.
*Estimates for the World Population in AD 1500, shortly after the original voyages of Columbus, still vary. But between the low estimation point of 425 million people in total to the high estimation point of 540 million.
It is estimated that only 20% of the Roman population, at any time during the Republic and Empire, was actually fully literate. But it is thought that basic reading skills and elementary-level writing might have spread wider as part of the skills needed for certain professions.
But what makes you think that literacy was a privilege of the higher-classes? Just as often, the Romans relied on educated slaves to do the job needed. Such slaves were used as teachers, secretaries, accountants, and doctors. These kind of professions are thought to have allowed for greater opportunities when a slave became a freedman.
Take for example Marcus Tullius Tiro (1st century BC), the slave and freedman of Marcus Tullius Cicero. He served as the private secretary, housekeeper, financial administrator, and general right-hand-man to his master. He went on to become a famous scholar, responsible for recording the full biography and many speeches of Cicero.
Tiro is probably better known for creating the so-called Tironian notes, a system for shorthand writing primarily used for taking dictation. It turned out to become highly influential and was still in use in Western Europe until the 12th century.
Assuming a suitable population of educated slaves is part of the expedition, writing is unlikely to get lost.
You assume that the Caribbean Islands sustained a native population at Roman times. This might not be the case as some of the "natives" Columbus encountered were relatively recent arrivals themselves. For example the Carib people, from which the name of the region originates. They seem to have originated in the area of the Orinoco river (currently divided between Venezuela and Colombia). Evidence so far suggests that they migrated to he islands in the 12th century or the early 13th century.
The Saladoid culture from Venezuela seems to have expanded to part of the Caribbean Isles between the 5th century BC and the 3rd century BC. Lasting all the way to the 6th century AD. But their settlements were limited to the Lesser Antilles, Puerto Rico, and (later) Hispaniola. Several other areas may not have had a permanent population at all during this era.
The cornerstone of Roman agriculture was wheat production. Barley was mostly used to produce certain drinks and to a lesser extent to create bread. Eating barley was unusual enough for people doing so, such as gladiators, to be nicknamed "hordearii" (barley-eaters). Peas, chickpeas (Latin: Cicer), fava beans, lupin beans, were a staple of Roman cuisine in ancient times and lentils were popular with the high classes.
Millet was mostly domesticated in Eastern Asia and was a relatively late arrival in Europe and Western Asia. Starting from Eastern Europe and slowly spreading West during the 1st millennium BC. I am not certain if the Romans were interested in cultivating it. Hemp production in Europe seems to have started in earnest iduring the Late Middle Ages, when the plant was both used in certain cooked dishes (particularly in Germany and Italy) and as a fiber in creating ropes and certain clothes. In ancient Europe, Hemp was probably used by the Germanic, Celtic, and Dacian cultures in their religious ceremonies but it is unclear if they actually cultivated it.
Goats and pigs would certainly be needed to establish any proper Roman farm. Chicken farming might have been less important. In Greece it was introduced around the 8th century BC and was still relatively uncommon by the 5th century BC. With the Greeks viewing chickens, particularly roosters, as an exotic "Persian" or "Median" animal according to references in classical literature. The Romans probably got the chickens through contact with the Greeks. But there are arguably more references to use of chickens for divination purposes than actual use for food. Lucius Junius Moderatus Collumela (4 c. 70 AD) devotes many of his writings on how to run a farm on how to properly breed chickens. Which point to a shift in attitude around the 1st century AD. Not certain if earlier Romans were familiar with the subject.
But to keep these animals alive, you would probably need large storage spaces both as a temporary habitat for them and a place to store the food they would need. Removing the possibility of a single ship accomplishing all this.
For the north and east winds which blow out from our part of the world plunge into fathomless space, and, owing to the distance, dissipate themselves and lose their power before they reach the islands; while the south and west winds that envelope the islands sometimes bring in their train soft and intermittent showers, but for the most part cool them with moist breezes and gently nourish the soil.