Roe V Wade goes the other way

WI Roe V Wade and that oter abortion case had been decided the other way?
Disclaimer: I am pro-life.
People, I know this is probably asking too much, but don't let this descend into a flame war. I really want your thoughts on how our last couple generations would have gone without Roe V Wade.
 
it would be on a state by state basis, legal in some, not in others. It would still be a bitter political issue that isn't going away; the debate would be about whether it should be legal nationwide. With the majority of the US population in favor of it, someone is going to force the issue sooner or later...
 
Considering Roe v. Wade was a 7-2 decision, I'm not sure if you can just explain it away by saying, 'what if it went the other way...' because that is unlikely without dramatically altering the face of the Supreme Court.

Warren Burger, who was the Chief Justice, was a conservative and had been appointed by Nixon. Harry Blackman and Lewis F. Powell were also both appointed by Nixon. William J. Brennan and Potter Stewart were appointed by Eisenhower - all voted in support. The only Democratic-appointed Justices who voted in favor of Roe v. Wade were William O. Douglas (FDR), and Thurgood Marshall (LBJ).

In fact, Byron White, the lone Kennedy appointment on the court at the time, voted against it and was joined by Nixon appointee William Rehnquist in dissent.

So, it would take quite a bit of revisionist history to alter the course of that vote. I don't know if you can even make it, since a great deal of the deciders, five of the seven were Republican appointees, voted in support.

It wasn't a hotly contested, at least within the Court, decision like the Affordable Healthcare Act - where it did come down to one vote. It was a decisive decision that almost universally stays the same without dramatic shifts in voting patterns, presidential politics and other issues that ultimately change the entire course of the United States.
 

Kissinger

Banned
Why not have them vote in compromise that it's only legal if health was involved? That would keep no one happy, lead to fraud but yet works?
 
WI Roe V Wade and that oter abortion case had been decided the other way?
Disclaimer: I am pro-life.
People, I know this is probably asking too much, but don't let this descend into a flame war. I really want your thoughts on how our last couple generations would have gone without Roe V Wade.
Origonally it was a 7-2 vote in favour of legalising abortion, and IIRC there was no division on party lines. There are also multiple ways you can justify this under the consttution, going all the way back to the first amendment, which often interpreted to mean that religion has no place in the law books, and since almost all arguements against abortion are religious ones... Unless you have a specific method in mind for reversing that, this is getting into ASB territory.

I'm not saying it's impossible. there are MANY 14th and 1st amendment violations on the US lawbooks, including all the famous examples you can probably think of, and a few you can't, but we still need a method for this one.

That issue aside, the US would probably not have experiencing the historical fall in crime during Reagon's administration, which has been attributed to the availability of abortion; meaning fewer children in broken homes, who are statistically more likely to turn to crime. (So goes the theory.) If so Reagan may have had less money available for his other adventures. Not that that ever bothered him.

Going on the theory that it could only happen due to strong religious feelings... It may adversely affect acceptance of gay-rights, along with other 'contraversial' aspects of reality that the far-right doesn't like, like evolution, climate change, science in general, and eventually athiesm/strong-secularism. If it hasn't been reversed by 2006, I'm certain Richard Dawkins will devote an entire chapter of The God Delusion to the subject.
 
I remember reading that Chief Justice Burger switched his vote at some point in the deliberation process. It is generally believed (he never confirmed this) that he did this so that he would determine who would write the opinion. If he hadn't, the most senior justice in the majority (i.e., Brennan) would have done so.
 
WI Roe V Wade and that oter abortion case had been decided the other way?
Disclaimer: I am pro-life.
People, I know this is probably asking too much, but don't let this descend into a flame war. I really want your thoughts on how our last couple generations would have gone without Roe V Wade.

ASB. The closest you can get is to reverse Casey, which would amount to the same thing, and which almost happened (O'Connor changed her mind at the last minute, IIRC).

Full disclosure: I'm on the same side.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Unlike some of those above, i think a different Roe is possible. You would likely have to have different justices, but if 2-3 were opposed, it means one can easily find justices that vote differently.

As an atheist, I can still find a long list of clearly religious motivated laws that should be struck down.

1) Buying beer on Sunday.

2) Prostitution is illegal.

3) Gambling is still only partially legal. For example, if I played a game of poker in my house, I could be arrested and go to jail for many years.

4) Gay marriage.

5) Islamic marriage/more than one wife - Seriously, what is the societal harm from 1 man and 2 women wanting to form a family.

6) Zoning laws in relationships to strip clubs and like being near churches, schools, and etc. I understand making strip clubs go into light commercial districts. I am even ok if you make go light industrial (M class zoning). But this XXX feet from a church is clearly religious based.

7) Sex laws. I have not check in years, but I am pretty sure anal sex among married couples is still illegal in many states. Maybe oral.

8) And on sex laws, why do married people get to do more activities in some states?

9) etc, etc. This could go on for pages.


Now as to the political impact of the supreme court refusing to fight, it would be a state by state battle where the pro-abortion forces normally win. For example, Mississippi had more abortion clinic pre-Roe than today. It is only such a constant issue because the pro-abortion forces know they can basically ignore. If you are middle class, even in a state with no clinics, you just have to take a trip once in your life for the abortion. Small bother. To the other side, it is murder. Now the strange thing is that so would be many birth control methods such as the IUD that impact post fertilization events.

And shouldn't this be in the political tab?
 
I can't think of any plausible way to change 3 votes on this issue. That said, had it happened, the issue would still be pressed and debated. It would be a long, divisive, bitter and polarizing battle for sure.


Unlike some of those above, i think a different Roe is possible. You would likely have to have different justices, but if 2-3 were opposed, it means one can easily find justices that vote differently.

As an atheist, I can still find a long list of clearly religious motivated laws that should be struck down.

~snip~

And shouldn't this be in the political tab?

Only if go OT or start arguing.
 

Kissinger

Banned
Compromise, compromise by making Abortion legal in certain conditions, there'll be fraud but it works, if not for compromise our country would not exist!
 

BlondieBC

Banned
I can't think of any plausible way to change 3 votes on this issue. That said, had it happened, the issue would still be pressed and debated. It would be a long, divisive, bitter and polarizing battle for sure.

Easy, appoint different Justices. We swap out leaders all the time as POD. Probably a change in the Presidential elections. Ike retires in 1956, for example. Butterflies the court.

IMO, if the 6-3 initial leaning information is correct, it would only take one more justice to likely force a compromise. When looking at a 5-4 split for Roe, they likely will compromise to get a larger vote and have a much more limited decision, so we can use the old, has a car wreck type POD.

A also think you could have the Justices pay more attention to opinion polls which were divided. The nation was moving towards the pro-abortion before the supreme court short circuited the process. Brown versus board of education came after the armed forces were integrated, and there was a strong civil rights movement. A Roe v. Wade that come after Congress has passed a major law increasing abortion access would be the equivalent time frame.
 
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