Rocky's Ashes : An American Politics TL

Penelope

Banned
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Governor Jimmy Carter accepting the Democratic Nomination in August 1976.

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“With our ticket fully nominated for re-election at the Republican National Convention in August, the election was on. Carter led us by 2 points in early polling, but we were certain to win Rocky’s home state of New York, but with Baker as our Vice President, we were all hoping to get some of the south, usually a democratic stronghold, to go for Rocky. We just might need it..” –From the diary of Donald Rumsfeld.

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“Send him home!” – Voters at Rockefeller/Baker rally chanting in disapproval of Jimmy Carter.

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Election Night 1976


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Nelson A. Rockefeller / Howard H. Baker, Jr.– 51.4% - 366 Electoral Votes
James "Jimmy" Carter / Walter F. Mondale – 46.5% - 172 Electoral Votes

President (Acting): Nelson A. Rockefeller
President – Elect: Nelson A. Rockefeller

***
ROCKY RE-ELECTED
Republicans sweep the nation in electoral landslide!

-Front Page Headline of the New York Times, November 2nd, 1976.
 
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A very interesting TL, even if you had to kill off nice old Jerry Ford to get it started. However, as others have pointed out, the main weak point is John Chafee for VP. I remember John Chafee. He was an excellent Governor and a fine Senator but he was one of Rocky's biggest supporters in 1964 and 1968 and even a more liberal Republican than Rockefeller. As another libetral Northeasterner he would add nothing to the ticket and his mere nomination would insure a conservative Republican revolt. If not from Reagan than from Laxalt, Thurmond (ugh!) or even Dole.
Rocky was a shrewd enough politician to relaize that he needed someone on the ticket somewhat to his right and from the South,the Midwest or the West. Luckily there was just such a person available and he was respected, even liked, by most of the GOP; Senator Howard Baker of Tennessee.
I could see Chafee having a major role in a Rockefeller Administration as either Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense. Since Kissinger was an old Rockefeller retainer, he would probably be kept on at State if he wanted the job for another four years.
I would expect a Rockefeller Administration to be hard headed as to the Soviet Union but still interested in pursuing detente. On domestic matters I think Rockefeller would have pursued an active civil rights poolicy and major investments in infrastructure. While Governor of NY, Rockefeller was said to have an "edifice complex" and I would think he would do the same on the federal level. Perhaps a major push for high speed rail?
 
I even admit that Chafee isn't a good candidate, but he is a fair candidate, one that helps lock-up Rhode Island and other new England States.





I'd like to remind you at this this time that not only did Reagan refuse to run in 1976 ITTL, he is also no longer Governor of California.

Plus, Reagan is never going to be picked by Nelson Rockefeller, of all people. Rocky knows that he needs to just keep up what he is doing, give Vice President to an virtual nobody, and settle down for a while. He has the public with him at this moment, Nixon and Watergate are long off of their minds, with the sudden assassination of Ford. The 'Winds of Change', as Miss Moore once said, are beginning to take effect.

I think your mixing up today's electorate with that of in the 70's,The Northeast was still very much so Rockefeller Republican territory. Rocky wouldn't have a Problem locking up State's like Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Conneticut, and Rhode Island. His weakness is in the South and in the Mountain West. Someone like Texas or Florida which carries big electoral votes is where he would have gone. Hell I think Rocky even suggested Dole to be his replacement so I don't know why he would do differ ITTL. If your plan is to have to Moderate maintain control over the party then save him for the 80's or 90's.

I personally think Sec of State would be a great fit for John...Im just sorry I don't see the logic in the Cafee pick 35 years, that was still a concern about Geographic and Ideological balance on the nation tickets since the parties were much less polarized than today. Btw, Everyone knows on the board that from yousing Dave Leip's maps that the GOP is Blue and the Dem's are Red, so no need to waste the extra effort in changing it.
 
Comments

It's an interesting TL but I've a couple of minor points/quibbles.

First, wouldn't a VP have been appointed very soon after the assassination of Ford ? I find it inconceivable that there wouldn't be a VP until some nine months later as there would be a need to have someone to take over if Rockefeller himself had been killed or died in office.

Second, I think instead of Chafee there was a much more likely candidate in George HW Bush who was, if memory serves, in China at the time but was, in OTL, recalled by Ford to become Director of the CIA in early 1976.

He had been touted as a possible VP when Nixon resigned and, while not as liberal as Rockefeller, was an influential figure in GOP circles and in the south.

I think a Rockefeller/Bush ticket could have had a bigger win even than the Rockefeller/Chafee ticket.
 

Penelope

Banned
It's an interesting TL but I've a couple of minor points/quibbles.

First, wouldn't a VP have been appointed very soon after the assassination of Ford ? I find it inconceivable that there wouldn't be a VP until some nine months later as there would be a need to have someone to take over if Rockefeller himself had been killed or died in office.

Second, I think instead of Chafee there was a much more likely candidate in George HW Bush who was, if memory serves, in China at the time but was, in OTL, recalled by Ford to become Director of the CIA in early 1976.

He had been touted as a possible VP when Nixon resigned and, while not as liberal as Rockefeller, was an influential figure in GOP circles and in the south.

I think a Rockefeller/Bush ticket could have had a bigger win even than the Rockefeller/Chafee ticket.

1: I don't think so, LBJ did not select his Vice President until the DNC. Similar situation to this one.

2: It's possible, but I'm seeing Rockefeller pick a virtual public unkown, someone that had been long gone from public exposure for a while.

I think your mixing up today's electorate with that of in the 70's,The Northeast was still very much so Rockefeller Republican territory. Rocky wouldn't have a Problem locking up State's like Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Conneticut, and Rhode Island. His weakness is in the South and in the Mountain West. Someone like Texas or Florida which carries big electoral votes is where he would have gone. Hell I think Rocky even suggested Dole to be his replacement so I don't know why he would do differ ITTL. If your plan is to have to Moderate maintain control over the party then save him for the 80's or 90's.

I personally think Sec of State would be a great fit for John...Im just sorry I don't see the logic in the Cafee pick 35 years, that was still a concern about Geographic and Ideological balance on the nation tickets since the parties were much less polarized than today. Btw, Everyone knows on the board that from yousing Dave Leip's maps that the GOP is Blue and the Dem's are Red, so no need to waste the extra effort in changing it.

The problem with having Chafee in the '80s or '90s is that he dies in 1999 OTL, from which there isn't much of a margin to move that date, he was about 80 or 90 when he passed, I believe. My reasoning behind VP Chafee is that Rocky already essentially knows he has the public's bakcing. He would have been polling pretty well in just about everywhere except the deep south, which is Carter's Home Turf. I think we would have just simply picked a rather unkown man, or, an unkown man to the general public atleast.

As for Red/Blue, I do that for myself, easier on the eyes. ;)
 
1: I don't think so, LBJ did not select his Vice President until the DNC. Similar situation to this one.

The 25th Amendment was ratified in 1967. Therefore, Rockefeller would have filled a vacancy in the Vice Presidency almost immediately.

Don't believe me? Then check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_amendment

If Rockefeller did select Chafee as his Veep, Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond would have revolted big time. And Meldrim Thompson (Governor of New Hampshire at the time) would have definitely explored a third party run for President.
 

Penelope

Banned
The 25th Amendment was ratified in 1967. Therefore, Rockefeller would have filled a vacancy in the Vice Presidency almost immediately.

Don't believe me? Then check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_amendment

If Rockefeller did select Chafee as his Veep, Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond would have revolted big time. And Meldrim Thompson (Governor of New Hampshire at the time) would have definitely explored a third party run for President.

That's true...

I would say that this would atleast given me a good reason for Chafee to be picked as a Vice Presidential Candidate, as the Democrats held a firm majority in 1974 and 1976. Must have had a lapse in memory, just forgetting when the 25th Amendment was passed. :eek:

Hmm, I think I can revise this a bit. I'm thinking that Rockefeller picks Chafee in later 1975, rather than mid-1976. I doubt there are many other people that a large democratic majority would have confirmed..
 
VP Politics

Most of the time, the public sees the VP as a relativly minor position. I'd think that in this time, the VP is going to be scrutinized very closely as a probable president.

If this keeps up for long, we might even see the VP in the next election turned into a seperate campaign. There's no requiement for the VP to be the Presidential candidate's pick, IIRC.
 
That's true...

I would say that this would atleast given me a good reason for Chafee to be picked as a Vice Presidential Candidate, as the Democrats held a firm majority in 1974 and 1976. Must have had a lapse in memory, just forgetting when the 25th Amendment was passed. :eek:

Hmm, I think I can revise this a bit. I'm thinking that Rockefeller picks Chafee in later 1975, rather than mid-1976. I doubt there are many other people that a large democratic majority would have confirmed..

I just don't see what the bid deal is about keeping Chafee as VP, there are plenty of other unknown candidates that would have offered Rocky scores more in Foriegn Policy expeirence or offered the ticket something why not go with Former Congressman, and Ford cheif of Staff Donald Rumsfeld. He's a colorless character that would have alot garnered Illinois voters to get it's 26 electoral votes.

Remember Im not attacking you or attempting to derail your timeline in anyway scifiguy. It's just pretty much a thing here on this forum that if most of your reader's find something unplausible you may need to go another way. We're here to guide, and be used as a reference when Authors decide to get a timeline off the ground, but we still respect the artist's vision. As an Author/Reader her at the forum, the pick just does not make sense to me...not in the least bit:(
 

Penelope

Banned
I just don't see what the bid deal is about keeping Chafee as VP, there are plenty of other unknown candidates that would have offered Rocky scores more in Foriegn Policy expeirence or offered the ticket something why not go with Former Congressman, and Ford cheif of Staff Donald Rumsfeld. He's a colorless character that would have alot garnered Illinois voters to get it's 26 electoral votes.

Remember Im not attacking you or attempting to derail your timeline in anyway scifiguy. It's just pretty much a thing here on this forum that if most of your reader's find something unplausible you may need to go another way. We're here to guide, and be used as a reference when Authors decide to get a timeline off the ground, but we still respect the artist's vision. As an Author/Reader her at the forum, the pick just does not make sense to me...not in the least bit:(

Personally, I just think that Rocky wouldn't pick a guy like Rumsfeld, or Reagan. And Rummy's home state of Illinois is an easy grab for Rocky.

I still see him picking a liberal, but perhaps Howard Baker would be a better choice. Let me think about it for a bit. If I go with Baker, it's going to have a bit of a different effect ITTL.
 
Personally, I just think that Rocky wouldn't pick a guy like Rumsfeld, or Reagan. And Rummy's home state of Illinois is an easy grab for Rocky.

I still see him picking a liberal, but perhaps Howard Baker would be a better choice. Let me think about it for a bit. If I go with Baker, it's going to have a bit of a different effect ITTL.

Tickets always need balance. Generally, it's a Conservative or Liberal balancing themselves with a moderate or, at the most extreme, someone on the other side of the spectrum (though often only those they can stomach). I'd say Baker is a good choice.
 
Edited, with Howard Baker as Veep instead of John Chafee.

I'm liking the way this is starting, Scifiguy. One minor thing, though; Rumsfeld's diary still says "Get Mr. Chafee on the phone." I think that may also need to be changed to Baker.

Either way, though, this has a lot of potential. This POD might actually save the liberal wing of the Republican Party, and that could make for interesting politics down the road.
 

Penelope

Banned
I'm liking the way this is starting, Scifiguy. One minor thing, though; Rumsfeld's diary still says "Get Mr. Chafee on the phone." I think that may also need to be changed to Baker.

Either way, though, this has a lot of potential. This POD might actually save the liberal wing of the Republican Party, and that could make for interesting politics down the road.

Ah! Thanks for alerting me! :)
 

Penelope

Banned
CARTER, 10 OTHERS KILLED IN PLANE CRASH

"Today, at what was estimated to be 11:45 PM, Jimmy Carter, several campaign aides, and two Georgia State Senators were killed in a violent plane crash on the Georgia-Tennessee border. It is epected that it took off at about 9:00 PM, that night, after a rally in Flint, Michigan. None of Carter's Family Members were on the plane. It must be a terrible day for the Carter Family, our deepest condolences go out to the Governor's loved ones. " - New York Times, November 3rd.

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"I am John Leving, reporting live from what has been identified as Gvernor and 1976 Presidential Candidate Jimmy Carter's flight out of Flint, Michigan. Carter has been pronounced dead, although no body has been found, although from looking at this scene, I'm pretty sure everyone can make a guess as to what happened to the poor man."​

He walked over into the wreckage.​

"You can see what appears to be boxes right here, perhaps containing some of the bumper stickers and campaign buttons that were reported to have survived the crash, somehow. The fire is still burning a bit, but not as badly as last night, when the firefighters were giving their all to put this fire out." - Local TV Newsman, Atlanta, Georgia. November 4th, 1976.

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