Rockefeller sends the National Guard to Woodstock

[Byzantion]

Allegedly, Governor Rockefeller wanted to send the National Guard to stop the Woodstock Festival but his mind had been changed in the last moment ? What would have happened if he did ? How would the Woodstock Festival had bee perceived in the future ? How would the end of the Sixties had been changed ? What would have been the political and cultural impact ? What would have happened to the legacy of the ,Summer of Love', Protest and Youth-Culture ?

 

[Johnrankins]

I am skeptical about this. On what grounds would he send in the National Guard? It wasn't a riot.

 

[overoceans]

I'm at work, and don't want to click on unfamiliar sites, but typing in "nelson rockefeller wanted to send national guard to woodstock" into duckduckgo brings up listings that include theculturetrip.com, whose summation includes the line "...Nelson Rockefeller, who initially wanted to use the National Guard for crowd and traffic control...".

Obviously, a lot would depend on how both sides react to what they encounter. If the guards go nuts when they see public nudity and weed-smoking, and respond as if it were all taking place at a suburban schoolyard, that's likely to provoke a pretty strong pushback from the attendees. On the other hand, if the guards keep cool, but certain elements among the festival-goers presume that they're just there to haul everyone off to concentration camps, you could see the spark ignited on the other side.

Worst case scenario: The square outrage and the hippie paranoia both kick in at the same time, and it's a bloody mess right from the get-go.

 

[Johnrankins]

I'm at work, and don't want to click on unfamiliar sites, but typing in "nelson rockefeller wanted to send national guard to woodstock" into duckduckgo brings up listings that include theculturetrip.com, whose summation includes the line "...Nelson Rockefeller, who initially wanted to use the National Guard for crowd and traffic control...".

Obviously, a lot would depend on how both sides react to what they encounter. If the guards go nuts when they see public nudity and weed-smoking, and respond as if it were all taking place at a suburban schoolyard, that's likely to provoke a pretty strong pushback from the attendees. On the other hand, if the guards keep cool, but certain elements among the festival-goers presume that they're just there to haul everyone off to concentration camps, you could see the spark ignited on the other side.

I am still skeptical, state police would make more sense for that.

 

[overoceans]

I am still skeptical, state police would make more sense for that.

Well, maybe, but when the food supplies were running low, it was the ARMY that flew provisions into the festival. I'm not sure whose idea that was(maybe the army just wanted the good publicity), but evidently someone thought that actual military forces were a good fit for the logistics of that particular event.

 

[overoceans]

Here's an account of Rockefeller's plans with a little more detail...

“There are some good stories like how [New York governor] Nelson Rockefeller was going to send in the National Guard to shut the festival down. Roberts and Rosenman had family in finance and banking and they got on the phone with the governor and pleaded with him to call off sending in the National Guard on that first Saturday. Otherwise, the festival never would have happened.”

Though the speaker, a filmmaker who either made or is making a documentary about Woodstock, doesn't indicate who he heard the stories from.

link

 

[Johnrankins]

Here's an account of Rockefeller's plans with a little more detail...

“There are some good stories like how [New York governor] Nelson Rockefeller was going to send in the National Guard to shut the festival down. Roberts and Rosenman had family in finance and banking and they got on the phone with the governor and pleaded with him to call off sending in the National Guard on that first Saturday. Otherwise, the festival never would have happened.”

Though the speaker, a filmmaker who either made or is making a documentary about Woodstock, doesn't indicate who he heard the stories from.

link

My guess is that he made it up as it makes no sense. If he sends the National Guard to shut down a music festival with no justification he will wind up getting sued, have a major PR crisis and almost certainly loses the next election. Unless Rockefeller was a complete idiot he would have known that.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

I'm skeptical too. Wlater Cronkite, who's business was the news, commented in a post retirement interview how the major news rooms missed the Woodstock event until it was nearly over, & nearly missed the core story. He said it was a major case of cluelessness on his & the other news mens part. Point here is if the major news outlets failed to notice what was actually going on why would Rockafeller, who was busy with dispensing pork and legislative matters, pick up on a music show upstate going megagonzo.

Given the year I'd expect half the Guard would have organized a beer run, & the other half started buying weed, then maybe selling weed & other items. The reactionary NG were out west & down South. Most I knew from that era were as cynical about keeping order as the hippies and music fans attending.

 

[Unknown]

My guess is that he made it up as it makes no sense. If he sends the National Guard to shut down a music festival with no justification he will wind up getting sued, have a major PR crisis and almost certainly loses the next election. Unless Rockefeller was a complete idiot he would have known that.

Look at what happened when Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes sent the Ohio NG to Kent State (arguably justified, though, given the rioting going on there) and they wound up killing four students; his national political career was over after that...

 

[kernals12]

Here's an account of Rockefeller's plans with a little more detail...

“There are some good stories like how [New York governor] Nelson Rockefeller was going to send in the National Guard to shut the festival down. Roberts and Rosenman had family in finance and banking and they got on the phone with the governor and pleaded with him to call off sending in the National Guard on that first Saturday. Otherwise, the festival never would have happened.”

Though the speaker, a filmmaker who either made or is making a documentary about Woodstock, doesn't indicate who he heard the stories from.

link

I'm supposed to believe that the Governor of the State of New York was going to have the national guard shut down a peaceful and completely lawful concert, in what would certainly be a massive violation of freedom of assembly?

 

[Johnrankins]

Look at what happened when Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes sent the Ohio NG to Kent State (arguably justified, though, given the rioting going on there) and they wound up killing four students; his national political career was over after that...

Yep, imagine if he sent them to close a music festival for no particular reason.

 

[Somedevil]

I'm skeptical too. Wlater Cronkite, who's business was the news, commented in a post retirement interview how the major news rooms missed the Woodstock event until it was nearly over, & nearly missed the core story. He said it was a major case of cluelessness on his & the other news mens part. Point here is if the major news outlets failed to notice what was actually going on why would Rockafeller, who was busy with dispensing pork and legislative matters, pick up on a music show upstate going megagonzo.

Given the year I'd expect half the Guard would have organized a beer run, & the other half started buying weed, then maybe selling weed & other items. The reactionary NG were out west & down South. Most I knew from that era were as cynical about keeping order as the hippies and music fans attending.

I am sure he was getting calls about the traffic and people also remember Woodstock was not held in Woodstock NY but Bethel, NY..

 

[Somedevil]

I feel you guys are looking at this with 2019 eyes and not 1969 eyes. Also Woodstock was not just a normal music fest it went well beyond that. I could see the Gov calling the NG out especially since the state police was already getting swamped.

 

[Johnrankins]

I feel you guys are looking at this with 2019 eyes and not 1969 eyes. Also Woodstock was not just a normal music fest it went well beyond that. I could see the Gov calling the NG out especially since the state police was already getting swamped.

Either that or we feel that someone might make something up because it makes a good yarn.

 

[Somedevil]

Either that or we feel that someone might make something up because it makes a good yarn.

Maybe but as someone who had relatives there one of my mothers first cousins is in the film.. It was a big enough deal that I am sure that Rockefeller was focusing on it more then almost anything else that weekend.

 

[aaronupright]

While lots of people might have day dreamed about machine gunning hippies, it would have been shocking in the extreme to actually do it.
Unless the atendees literally decided that they would march to Long Island and burn the Grumann plant down.....

 

[overoceans]

I feel you guys are looking at this with 2019 eyes and not 1969 eyes. Also Woodstock was not just a normal music fest it went well beyond that. I could see the Gov calling the NG out especially since the state police was already getting swamped.

On both sides of this debate, I think there could be a bit of "retrofitting" the events of 50 years ago through a contemporary lens(sorry if that's a mixed metaphor).

To say "Rockefeller wouldn't care about one music festival, it wasn't a riot. Freedom of assembly etc" might betray an outlook that's grown up in a world where The Who plays the Super Bowl, flag-burning has been okay for over twenty years, middle-class office workers access porn on their lunch breaks with a click of their cell phones, and marijuana legalization in one form or another is the law in a majority of states. That WASN'T the world of 1969, especially not among Rockefeller and his fan base, and he may very well have made not much distinction between a gathering of hippies, known to do drugs and romp amorously in public, and a gathering of leftists of the type who had been engaged in highly agressive, if not outright violent, protests across the country. (And yes, I realize the right-wing was doing bad stuff too, probably worse.)

On the other hand, assuming that Rocky's immediate response to the festival would have been to say "Send in the guards!!" might reflect a worldview that grew up knowing how singular and iconic Woodstock is considered by later generations. IOW assuming that Rockefeller would have attached the same significance to it that we do today.

One thing I'll note is that there seem to be at least two different versions of the story: one in which Rockefeller wanted to use the Guard to control the crowds and traffic, and one in which he wanted to use it to shut down the festival entirely.

 

[Chapman]

One thing I'll note is that there seem to be at least two different versions of the story: one in which Rockefeller wanted to use the Guard to control the crowds and traffic, and one in which he wanted to use it to shut down the festival entirely.

Probably the truth is somewhere in between. It seems likely that Rocky would've wanted to do what he could to put a damper on this mass gathering of hippies and general leftist types, and using the Guard to control crowds and direct traffic helps with that. Their mere presence could serve to irritate and discourage would-be festival goers, without necessarily escalating to the point of outright oppression and aggression.

 

[overoceans]

Probably the truth is somewhere in between. It seems likely that Rocky would've wanted to do what he could to put a damper on this mass gathering of hippies and general leftist types, and using the Guard to control crowds and direct traffic helps with that. Their mere presence could serve to irritate and discourage would-be festival goers, without necessarily escalating to the point of outright oppression and aggression.

And it's also plausible that any contemplation of a Guard response on Rocky's part would have been along the lines of "Hmm, maybe send in the Guards?", which was quickly shot down by cooler heads among his advisers. Though I suppose this would contradict the idea that it reached the point of the organizers having to get family to call and get the Guards nixed.

 

[Somedevil]

On both sides of this debate, I think there could be a bit of "retrofitting" the events of 50 years ago through a contemporary lens(sorry if that's a mixed metaphor).

To say "Rockefeller wouldn't care about one music festival, it wasn't a riot. Freedom of assembly etc" might betray an outlook that's grown up in a world where The Who plays the Super Bowl, flag-burning has been okay for over twenty years, middle-class office workers access porn on their lunch breaks with a click of their cell phones, and marijuana legalization in one form or another is the law in a majority of states. That WASN'T the world of 1969, especially not among Rockefeller and his fan base, and he may very well have made not much distinction between a gathering of hippies, known to do drugs and romp amorously in public, and a gathering of leftists of the type who had been engaged in highly agressive, if not outright violent, protests across the country. (And yes, I realize the right-wing was doing bad stuff too, probably worse.)

On the other hand, assuming that Rocky's immediate response to the festival would have been to say "Send in the guards!!" might reflect a worldview that grew up knowing how singular and iconic Woodstock is considered by later generations. IOW assuming that Rockefeller would have attached the same significance to it that we do today.

One thing I'll note is that there seem to be at least two different versions of the story: one in which Rockefeller wanted to use the Guard to control the crowds and traffic, and one in which he wanted to use it to shut down the festival entirely.

True.. This is off of Wiki so take with grain of salt " On the morning of Sunday, August 17, New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller called festival organizer John Roberts and told him he was thinking of ordering 10,000 New York State National Guard troops to the festival. Roberts was successful in persuading Rockefeller not to do this. Sullivan County declared a state of emergency.[27] During the festival, personnel from nearby Stewart Air Force Base assisted in helping to ensure order and airlifting performers in and out of the concert venue.[32]"