RN Capital ship WWI construction halts effect of WNT?

RN Capital ship WWI construction halts effect on WNT?

What if the first Sea Lord cancels all post QE capital ship construction on 5th August 1914 due to not wanting to waste energy completing ships that are not needed for the short war coming?

So the QEs are rushed as fast as OTL but the rest of the ships build, the Rs, R&R, LLC and Hood are all scraped or not started.

What would be the effect on the WNT negotiations post war? Unless you think they are butterflied away?
 
It might leave the Germans in a position where they are willing to try fleet actions after Jutland which could be interesting. Especially if it gives the Royal Navy a Trafalgar moment or if it suffers significant losses.

Regarding the wnt the Americans are unlikely to offer the Royal Navy parity if that parity is going to be based on newer ships. As it was historically they gave parity because 11 of GBsome ships were heavily war worn which ages a ship.
 
Regarding the wnt the Americans are unlikely to offer the Royal Navy parity if that parity is going to be based on newer ships. As it was historically they gave parity because 11 of GBsome ships were heavily war worn which ages a ship.
Accepting anything less than parity would lead to the fall of the British government. There is no way the British people or those of the Dominions would tolerate it.
 
Regarding the wnt the Americans are unlikely to offer the Royal Navy parity if that parity is going to be based on newer ships. As it was historically they gave parity because 11 of GBsome ships were heavily war worn which ages a ship.
I thought parity was more about looking good than any reasonable war potential? Basically the majority of the US government didn't really care at all as long as the nobody could publicly call the US 2nd best in the papers.... (this fits far better with the totally unbalanced nature of the US fleet, ie capital ships but without much in the way of the boring stuff that lets them actually deploy or fight especially pre WWI)
 
I thought parity was more about looking good than any reasonable war potential? Basically the majority of the US government didn't really care at all as long as the nobody could publicly call the US 2nd best in the papers.... (this fits far better with the totally unbalanced nature of the US fleet, ie capital ships but without much in the way of the boring stuff that lets them actually deploy or fight especially pre WWI)

Like all agreements there is five or six different views within a nation and you need to patch together a majority in support. So there could have been two similar views that agreed with each other. So there would have been a parity is fine (as long as no one can say we are second best) and a parity is fine as long as our ships are better in some way. One years war service was considered to be the same wear as four or five years peace time so the some parties in the USA felt that the QEs and R classes were worndownt.

Accepting anything less than parity would lead to the fall of the British government. There is no way the British people or those of the Dominions would tolerate it.
True. So I guess it will be hard for there to be a wnt early after ww1. Britain will probably build as much as it can afford for a number of years trying to catch up with the 4 year lead they gave America while the Americans may coast and keep ahead with a few new builds a year.
 
So let's say with British capital ship building suspended after the QEs Germany finishes the battleships Baden and Bayern and the battlecruiser Hindenburg and thinks they can have cut at the British with better odds than the first time. Hindenburg finishes somewhat earlier due to a higher priority.

Britain undergoes it's historical improvements in shell design and restores antiflash procedures as historical.

Let's say the German admirals decide to roll the dice and not do a battle turn away (or British subs conveniently positioned encourage the Germans to turn back into the British fleet) how will Jutland fare.

I imagine it will be a bloody bottle with both sides suffering heavy losses. Let's say Britain lose 7 out of 28 battleships (including 2 QE and an Iron Duke) and 2 out of 6 battlecruisers while the Germans lose 8 out of 18 battleships, 6 out of 6 predreadnoughts and 2 out of 6 battlecruisers. With no capital ships from either navy

The German Navy's back is broken as an offensive force but Britain's position as the largest navy in the world has disappeared as USA has claimed that spot.

Come the end of the war there will be an attempt to agree a WNT or similar but will Britain be able to build any new ships.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
So let's say with British capital ship building suspended after the QEs Germany finishes the battleships Baden and Bayern and the battlecruiser Hindenburg and thinks they can have cut at the British with better odds than the first time. Hindenburg finishes somewhat earlier due to a higher priority.

Britain undergoes it's historical improvements in shell design and restores antiflash procedures as historical.

Let's say the German admirals decide to roll the dice and not do a battle turn away (or British subs conveniently positioned encourage the Germans to turn back into the British fleet) how will Jutland fare.

I imagine it will be a bloody bottle with both sides suffering heavy losses. Let's say Britain lose 7 out of 28 battleships (including 2 QE and an Iron Duke) and 2 out of 6 battlecruisers while the Germans lose 8 out of 18 battleships, 6 out of 6 predreadnoughts and 2 out of 6 battlecruisers. With no capital ships from either navy

The German Navy's back is broken as an offensive force but Britain's position as the largest navy in the world has disappeared as USA has claimed that spot.

Come the end of the war there will be an attempt to agree a WNT or similar but will Britain be able to build any new ships.
Well, but I think more Iron Duke would be lost.

Also, the replacing ships will be much more powerful, and might be upgunned to 16 to 18 inch guns.
 
Well, but I think more Iron Duke would be lost.
Possibly I figured the QEs would be the lead formation in the fleet so likely to be in contact with the enemy for the entire engagement so I gave them the highest losses. The other positioning option would be detached with the battlecruisers and joining the line of battle either in the van or the rear so again more time in combat.

The loss of new iron Duke was simply in proportion to the rest of the fleet, could be more or less only mentioned as she is the second most modern class.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Possibly I figured the QEs would be the lead formation in the fleet so likely to be in contact with the enemy for the entire engagement so I gave them the highest losses. The other positioning option would be detached with the battlecruisers and joining the line of battle either in the van or the rear so again more time in combat.

The loss of new iron Duke was simply in proportion to the rest of the fleet, could be more or less only mentioned as she is the second most modern class.
I am not sure but did German BBs in Jutland demonstrated any sign that they would be sunk if the battle went longer?
 
So let's say with British capital ship building suspended after the QEs Germany finishes the battleships Baden and Bayern and the battlecruiser Hindenburg and thinks they can have cut at the British with better odds than the first time. Hindenburg finishes somewhat earlier due to a higher priority.

Britain undergoes it's historical improvements in shell design and restores antiflash procedures as historical.

Let's say the German admirals decide to roll the dice and not do a battle turn away (or British subs conveniently positioned encourage the Germans to turn back into the British fleet) how will Jutland fare.

I imagine it will be a bloody bottle with both sides suffering heavy losses. Let's say Britain lose 7 out of 28 battleships (including 2 QE and an Iron Duke) and 2 out of 6 battlecruisers while the Germans lose 8 out of 18 battleships, 6 out of 6 predreadnoughts and 2 out of 6 battlecruisers. With no capital ships from either navy

The German Navy's back is broken as an offensive force but Britain's position as the largest navy in the world has disappeared as USA has claimed that spot.

Come the end of the war there will be an attempt to agree a WNT or similar but will Britain be able to build any new ships.

....While Scheer and Hipper were undoubtly retarded enough to do Britain this kind of favor in late 1918 I doubt they'll do it before that.

Also, how come the British are getting their post Jutland improvements without Jutland (shells, flash protection)? And the Germans get... nothing?
 

Thomas1195

Banned
....While Scheer and Hipper were undoubtly retarded enough to do Britain this kind of favor in late 1918 I doubt they'll do it before that.

Also, how come the British are getting their post Jutland improvements without Jutland (shells, flash protection)? And the Germans get... nothing?
He said that Jutland would happen but German ships decided to banzai instead of retreat.

Well Germany would resort to USW, so the improvements woukd be halted.
 
He said that Jutland would happen but German ships decided to banzai instead of retreat.

Well Germany would resort to USW, so the improvements woukd be halted.

And they would do that why?

Visibility was poor for the Germans making it hard to find the range or hit anything, they were outnumbered and caught with their T crossed. It makes no sense to fight this thing, much less in 1916. Scheer might go for it in October 1918 (well, he is savely at home and it's others doind the dying) but not in May 1916.
 
....While Scheer and Hipper were undoubtly retarded enough to do Britain this kind of favor in late 1918 I doubt they'll do it before that.

Also, how come the British are getting their post Jutland improvements without Jutland (shells, flash protection)? And the Germans get... nothing?

Jutland happened but because of the OPs idea that Britain would suspend capital ships Germany feels more confident and able to engage in a rematch given that German had new ships since Jutland and Britain didn't. I'm just throwing out a scenario for the rest of ww1 at sea given the butterflys from no R class battleships and no Renown and Repulse.

My scenario is that there is a Jutland rematch either late 1916 or early 1917 and that the HSF is unable to turn away from the GSF. Maybe I'm giving Britain too much luck.

I am not sure but did German BBs in Jutland demonstrated any sign that they would be sunk if the battle went longer?
Jutland was a disaster for the Royal Navy. Between the battlecruiser messups and the fact that only 30% of British shells actually worked as opposed to 70% by a year later and no German battleship suffered more than 10 hits means that we were no where near the point where ships would be likely to sink from cumulative damage.
 
Jutland happened but because of the OPs idea that Britain would suspend capital ships Germany feels more confident and able to engage in a rematch given that German had new ships since Jutland and Britain didn't. I'm just throwing out a scenario for the rest of ww1 at sea given the butterflys from no R class battleships and no Renown and Repulse.

My scenario is that there is a Jutland rematch either late 1916 or early 1917 and that the HSF is unable to turn away from the GSF. Maybe I'm giving Britain too much luck.

Allright that makes more sense. I thought you meant no Jutland happend before these changes to the RN, my bad.

But even than it's what? 19 (modern) battleships to 28? And 5 battlecruisers to 7? All this would do would be to encourage the Germans to continue to try and slowly reduce the odds. Probably with continued attempts to lure the RN into submarine ambushes or minefields.

This might cause Scheer to not push (so hard) for unrestricted submarine warfare, at least for the reminder of 1916.
 
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