Rise of the Iberian Lion

I was thinking about that, however I do not plan on having him really win. At most independence in that small area, but not able to really attack Alfonso. Plus, once he doesnt have the money to pay back, his soldiers may just turn on him and ravage his lands. Might lead to just an easy pick-up later by Alfonso VII or his son.

Yep. Assuming Alfonso VII (or his son) is in any position to do so himself, but you have it.
 
Yep. Assuming Alfonso VII (or his son) is in any position to do so himself, but you have it.

Well in Alfonso VII's time, i would assume so. If he just leaves Alfonz to fall to his own demise, he will spend his time giving off land grants and paying off the soldiers of the Almoravid War. After which he could easily regroup an army by offering land in the south? If in Ferdinand II's time, well in my current direction he would have inherited more wealth than his sister Sancha and his brother Felipe, but his lands would be limited to Castile-Leon-Galicia.

My current plan is have Alfonso VII retake Navarre around 1125-30 after it has ravaged itself by mercenary bands, then have him die. Once his death comes, Ferdinand inherits Leon-Castille-Galicia-Navarre. Sancha inherits either Aragon-Catalonia-Valencia, or the conquered Southern Lands. What would they call the southern lands? I was thinking Badajoz-Cordoba?
 
It's tempting to do Napoleonic style recruitment but...

I may be wrong, but, mercenaries are for quick recruitment, or to outnumber an ennemy, or in order to use them in the secondaries theaers of operation, as a pillaging machine, for weakening the supply and reinforcment of the foe?

It's still possible to use the feudal system (or the pre-feudal system, as the free men, all the people who have an axe or a sword are more or less obligated to follow for a war, in order to loot, but aslo to keep their social status) by giving lands (as you explained well) but aslo by giving the ones who follow a war leader a place into the house (in a social sense) with sure food, place to sleep and protection (very much like the client system at Roma), it this system which gave birth to the chivalry.
Of course, it's fro a real decentralized state and no king can control this clientelism in all his kingdom (critically because the first chivalry system we know aren't noble at all, but semi-paesant, glorified by church then, and after that becoming an ideal for nobilty) but it's enough coherant to function withtout great damages. Of course, since the XII the knights are less willing to go to war, making them giving money to the suzerain in exchange, that the suzerain used for pay mercenaries.

And i concurr with the fact that the first "national" armies are quite mercenaries regularly paied, in order to make them quite loyal.
 
I may be wrong, but, mercenaries are for quick recruitment, or to outnumber an ennemy, or in order to use them in the secondaries theaers of operation, as a pillaging machine, for weakening the supply and reinforcment of the foe?

It's still possible to use the feudal system (or the pre-feudal system, as the free men, all the people who have an axe or a sword are more or less obligated to follow for a war, in order to loot, but aslo to keep their social status) by giving lands (as you explained well) but aslo by giving the ones who follow a war leader a place into the house (in a social sense) with sure food, place to sleep and protection (very much like the client system at Roma), it this system which gave birth to the chivalry.
Of course, it's fro a real decentralized state and no king can control this clientelism in all his kingdom (critically because the first chivalry system we know aren't noble at all, but semi-paesant, glorified by church then, and after that becoming an ideal for nobilty) but it's enough coherant to function withtout great damages. Of course, since the XII the knights are less willing to go to war, making them giving money to the suzerain in exchange, that the suzerain used for pay mercenaries.

And i concurr with the fact that the first "national" armies are quite mercenaries regularly paied, in order to make them quite loyal.
Mercenaries depend on the period. After the 1200s they became a huge part of everyone's military but to what extent that was driven by the Crusades, I am not sure. Certainly at Hastings there were a number of mercenaries from the northern-France/low-countries areas.

It's a good point, though I do not know to what extent the essentially huscarl-dom you described was used in Spain. Kings often times had to raise armies based on their own lands except in emergencies as I said, and it was these lands which provided the income to provide for food/sleep/protection for the warriors as you said. You make a very good point about the original warriors being semi-peasants. If you could organize the defense of the local area you got a lot of credit and maybe eventually gave birth to a noble line.

I will say that during the Granada War, Ferdinand hired mercenaries yes, but Isabella recruited in Castile. She paid them yes, but she ran around asking for a few troops from every village so they could finally remove the Muslims, appealing to their religious patriotism. Together they could put maybe up to 50,000 to lay siege to Granada and build Santa Fe because it was essentially in Spain itself rather than in Italy or Germany etc. so you could supply both by internal supply lines by land and by ship from the ports like Malaga.

Recently I was actually able to order Medieval Iberia: An Encyclopedia (VERY expensive book, goes from 500-1500) so hopefully that will have more details when I get it.

@Crayhistory and Elfwine: As per usual my explanation is getting wordy so maybe I'll just post it in my main TL thread when its done. Oh God, why can't I ever shut up? :p
 
It's a good point, though I do not know to what extent the essentially huscarl-dom you described was used in Spain
Until the VII, probably, but the visigothic society feudalized itself very quickly, too rapidly to allow it.
In Francia, it last until Charlemagne in fact, so yeah, it's too late for that.

The chivalry system, for this TL is still present, so it would be interesting to use it, when it still work more or less, both for the tactical use and for the cultural consequence : development of important courts, idealism, devlopment of arts, for the divertissment, as lyric poetry (trobador/trouvère, portuguese poetry) or epic one (chansons de geste, castillan litterature)


Recently I was actually able to order Medieval Iberia: An Encyclopedia (VERY expensive book, goes from 500-1500) so hopefully that will have more details when I get it.
Can i suggest "Histoire de l'Espagne Mediévale" by Evariste Lévi-Provencal? It's quite a classic. Unfortunatly some dirty [censored] stole it from me.
 
Until the VII, probably, but the visigothic society feudalized itself very quickly, too rapidly to allow it.
In Francia, it last until Charlemagne in fact, so yeah, it's too late for that.

The chivalry system, for this TL is still present, so it would be interesting to use it, when it still work more or less, both for the tactical use and for the cultural consequence : development of important courts, idealism, devlopment of arts, for the divertissment, as lyric poetry (trobador/trouvère, portuguese poetry) or epic one (chansons de geste, castillan litterature)

Hmm this is interesting. I might go with this, would this by any chance lead to a small Renaissance?

@MNP: Sure, thats fine with me, the more detailed the better.
 
Heres a revised part three. Here, it takes Alfonso much longer to regain an army, after he pays off his previous troops, and gains more support from the Count of Asturias. Also, Alfonz finds it difficult to pay off his own troops, and they turn on him. This also shows a bit on Germany, and Frederick(o), son of Alfonso, who is this TL equivalent of Conrad III.


Alfonso VII, self proclaimed Emperor of All Hispania, who by default was ruler of all the lands in the entirety of the Iberian Peninsula, had fought a short but damaging war with the Almoravids. Though he ended up winning, it was only because of the capture of the Almoravids leader, as the Second Battle of Valencia was no where near winning. Now his army, though great at start, was weak and exhausted. Though war had ended, it was only just the beginning for the trouble’s Alfonso VII would face. His father had set-up an Iberia much different to the one that was viewed for years before, one where the King had been gaining more and more power. Now the Counts and Lords would fight back, and it all started with Alfonso the Battler, and the Count of Urgell’s.

Alfonso the Battler was the son of the last King of Aragon before it was made a vassal of Leon. He was also its last reigning “Duke,” before power was taken from him by his uncle, and given to his cousin Ramon. However, with news of Ramon’s death, the area, which had become lands under Ramon, where technically under Alfonso VII’s rule. However, with Alfonso handling problems in the south, and no one in Aragon to rule, Alfonso the Battler rose up and claimed the throne of Aragon and Pamplona. He soon found much support in his old lands. The most surprising support however came from a Count, Ermengol VI, Count of Urgell. The County of Urgell had been quite powerful, but since the times of Alfonso VI, they had been losing power. Ermengol feared the change coming, and also feared the king’s power growing to big, so in 1118, he supported Alfonso the Battler, and raised a small regiment of men to go fight under his name.

Later that year, Alfonso VII would arrive in southern Aragon, which itself had become a neutral zone. Whispers of Alfonso the Battler trying to unite Aragon once more had spread, but fear of Alfonso VII’s “Grand” army had made the area stay neutral, and largely under Alfonso VII. Alfonso VII took a break here, in the city of Alcaniz, to re-moralize the troops, and re-supply in food. Alfonso was also able to get some men to come along and join him against Alfonso the Battler. Alfonso VII was again his cunning and charm to persuade the people of the area.

In the north Alfonso the Battler, and the Count of Urgell’s knew that Alfonso VII’s army would be marching to them. Originally, Alfonso the Battler would try to convince the city of Pamplona to join him, without having to make a siege, however the city official’s kicked Alfonso the Battler out, and prepared for a siege. One which never came. Alfonso the Battler wanted to take the city quickly, besides the whole area around it was under his support anyways, however Ermengol would advice him against it. “Just camp outside its walls, and await Alfonso VII. The army must be in top condition.”

In June 13th, 1118 both Alfonso’s would meet at the Battle of Pamplona. The battle would end in the King’s(Alfonso VII) retreat, however it could barely be called a loss. Alfonso the Battler’s army, which was a ragtag group, with the exception of Ermengol’s men, where no match to the Strategic mind of Alfonso VII. This however was made up in supplies, and numbers, and Alfonso the Battler would be able to remain in his “Governed lands” for now. One good thing that happened however, was the capture of Ermengol VI, who had tried to escape the battle. Alfonso VII had him executed. From here on out he would grow a distrust to Counts. None the less, Alfonso VII made his march west, to Castille, where he would regroup, and attempt to enlargen his army, for the eventual takeover of Alfonso the Battler’s lands.

In the east, Alfonso the Battler would over dramatize the events that transpired. In Pamplona, after news of the kings retreat, the doors where open, and support was given. However, Alfonso the Battler’s army had suffered many losses. He himself would have to move east to his homeland to try and gain more troops to fight for his cause. In Pamplona, Alfonso the Battler would be Crowned Alfonz I of Navarre and Aragon, (a name he chose himself to differentiate from his cousin), however this was largely not accepted by much of the populace, who still viewed him as a small revolter who could barely hold an army.

Arriving at Leon, Alfonso VII’s troops began the demanding that they would be payed. Originally grouped to fight the Almoravids, that was now over, and the wanted what they where promised. Most got payments, and went home. Some where given lands in the newly conquered south. Many departed and left the King. From here the King would attempt to persuade neighboring counts and lords to support his cause. One man who would support the King largely was Rodrigo Munoz, Count of Asturias. He would give donations to hire more mercenary troops. With promises of great lands in the south, Alfonso VII would be able to once again raise quite the army in 1125. In 1124, Sancha(Alfonso VII’s Daughter) was given the title of Countess of Sevilla, and Lord of the Southern Lands. Frederick II, son of Alfonso, had been given the title of Prince of Hispania, however it virtually had little meaning.

Alfonz I had failed to pay the troops under his command, and by 1123, many had quit, and others had gone against him. The area’s under his control had become area’s of constant fighting, and in 1124, it is rumored that Alfonz died in battle against men that where formally under his command. In 1125, when Alfonso VII went in to attack, he found not one organized army, but several factions of small men that went around pillaging. He made quick work of the small, unorganized factions, and by 1127, Navarre had fallen back under his possession. Felipe I was named Lord of Aragon-Valencia, Count of Catalonia-Barcelona, and Protector of Eastern Hispania.

In Germany, Frederick(o), son of Alfonso VII and Agnes of Germany, had gained much popularity upon becoming Duke of Franconia. Though being raised in Iberia, his mother had taught him(and the rest of her kids) German, and he was quite well in it. He stemmed a growth of popularity in Franconia and the surrounding area’s, and in 1121 he was made Regent of Germany. However, his rise was largely opposed by the northern Germans, and especially by Lothair of Saxony. Frederick would gain more support from Swabia once he married Frederick I of Swabia’s only child, and daughter, Bertha*, who had become the Duke of Swabia herself. The marriage took place in early march of 1121, and by 1123 they had a son, Conrad. In 1124 however, Bertha would die, reasons of which still left unknown, however it is believed she had gotten cancer. This left Conrad as Duke of Swabia, however he was to young, only a year old, and Frederick(o) became Duke of Swabia, and formally established the Jimenez Dynasty into Swabia.

In 1125, Henry V of Germany, uncle of Frederick II, Regent of Germany, Duke of Franconia, and Duke of Swabia, died. Many in the south wanted Frederick II to be made King of Germany, however he was opposed in the north by Lothair. Lothair was then elected Lothair III of Germany. In the south this was strongly opposed, and Frederick was elected anti-king of Germany by much of the south, including Austria, and northern Italy, the election took place at Nuremberg in 1127. Frederick would cross the Alps to be crowned King of Italy be Anselm V, Archbishop of Milan. However after two years of failing to achieve much in Italy, he returned to Germany in 1130, after Nuremberg and Speyer fell to Lothair in late 1129. Frederick would continue in his opposition, but in 1135 he would acknowledge Lothair. He also relinquished the title of King of Italy, after which he was given control of his lands once again. In 1037, Lothair would die, and Frederick would finnaly be elected King of Germany, over Lothair’s son-in-law Henry.


* Fictional, in OTL Frederick I of Swabia marries Agnes, but in TTL he marries some other, less important person, and has a daughter, Bertha, who marries Frederick.
 
In regards to the national army it turned into a military history so I'll just give you the short version.

Early armies were semi-feudal (cavalry) + cash based and relied on spoils. A small permanent infantry army was established around 820 made possible by an increasing monetary economy thanks to privileges granted by the Caliphs, exploitation of native resources, and gold trade from Africa. I've actually written several pages of notes for exactly how Abd ar-Rahman organized this and set the nobles on each other while using the dynasty as an arbiter but it's not too relevant here right now.

The cavalry never became all-powerful. They never had much money to spare after equipment and training. These were almost entirely Berbers until after 900 and had little support to seize power as well as slowly abandoning any nomadic lifestyle for a settled. The missile cavalry the Jinetes, came largely from the Zenata who still practiced herding but there were not enough of them to seize power alone either.

In contrast, social rank became a function of patronage in the form of infrastructure spending (churches, travel stations, dams, etc.) as long as security was provided. Counts were titles given by Abd ar-Rahman to rulers of important cities while rural landholders remained simply "lords" which was the common title in Asturias around 750. The dynasty leveraged the urban nobles against the rural and established limits on land and slaves through taxation while promoting prosperity through commerce and trade. A bureaucracy co-opted the nobility and also became a vehicle for social advancement and ability to spend on patronage furthering the split between urban "refined" and rural "coarse" nobility. By Amina's time the rural nobles are similar in concept to "landed gentry" and count more as mannered wealthy peasants. A number started the Agricultural Coops with peasants to leverage power against the urban nobility and merchant groups. The provincial cavalry have also essentially become slightly better off peasants with low military effectiveness unless they joined the State Guard.

The military system decayed after the 950s as more mercenary troops were bought by funds gained from full control over the African trade and hegemony over the Italian maritime cities increased revenues. Elite troops were the first truly "national" forces with the examples being the Royal Cavalesos which are small in number, but had no family ties except to their comrades and the state. Two weapons became important. After 900s crossbows spread and developed rapidly and by 1130s incorporated steel parts. The second was the pike which was revived by Ravenna in the early 1000s and demonstrated its usefulness against the Spaniards in the 1050s. Since 1060 armies of pike and crossbow infantry have become the mainstay of western forces. Cavalry are still important and decisive, but armies are now built around infantry that allow cavalry to decide the battle. It's only now that financial systems are catching up to military organization so army size is experiencing rapid growth.

A lot of money was spent over the centuries on things like roads, reducing or eliminating internal trade barriers, and harmonizing laws. At the same time the dynasty always cast itself as a champion of the peasants--regardless of that truth or fiction--and occasionally does take public action in their favor. This has reduced local idiosyncrasies and contributed to a growing set of "national" norms while helping the general populace think of themselves as united under the king (or queen). "National" appeals have been made before, by the Junta and Ortiz during the Roman Wars, by Alejandro III during the Breton War and to a lesser extent in the Ecumenical Reconquista, but they tended to be to the nobility or the elites in order to gain money and political capital. The people were not very involved.

Amina has changed everything. After the troubles of her early reign, she is now appealing to the people. She was able to frighten the merchants into accepting tax laws. She's traveled parts of the kingdom making direct appeals for recruits (as I've described from time to time and she'll do it again) to help defend against a foreign invasion. Only the previous unifying steps and reduction in the power of the nobility have made this possible. For the first time the general populace are entering the army as volunteers in response to a "national" appeal to fight as "Spaniards." State churches also contribute as we saw the Ebro revolts so you will probably see increasing splintering of Christianity along state lines. I have some interesting plans for the papacy as a result.

It's actually going to be in the next update, but Enrique will use the printing to start pushing anti-Francia propaganda. Since at least half the populace can read it's easy to demonize the Francians in ways that both rely on and ignore truth. Since Francia and Spaña have been rivals and enemies in some form or another since about 1010, people have started to become used to hating "Francs" (as we saw with reactions to Tajer) or in Francia, "Spaniards."

Basically conditions aligned for Amina to forge a national army right now thanks to centuries of developments in society, laws, economics, administration and luck.
 
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MNP said:
Elfwine it just occurred to me: Isabella didn't just reposes those lands by royal decree. She called a Cortes to do it.

Interesting.

And speaking of, interesting description of the forming of a national army.

It always amazes me how the stuff it takes to get a real national army and infrastructure is so basic - none of this stuff is something one couldn't imagine in 1000 AD, or at most 1200 (OTL, Western Europe) - but actually doing it is a huge project.

Consistent royal income, consistent royal power, and consistent unity.
 
Thar's quite a summary MNP. However is that a summary of OTL or what is happening in your TL? I am a little confused.

Also any thoughts on my Revised 3rd part? Also, Alfonso will be dieing soon, leaving his Kingdom divided in three, the three Spana's. After his death I was thinking that the Kingom's would be known as the Spana's, with Nortespana(Galicia-Leon-Castille) Surspana(Badajoz-Seville), and Aragospana(Navarre-Aragon-Valencia-Barcelona). Hows that?

I was also thinking of doing an overview of the rest of Europe. I thought something interesting would be to have a fully independent Aquitaine Kingdom, but I am still looking at the plausibility of such a Kingdom.

Also i'm thinking about a way to continue an independent Normandy. When William the Conquerer died, his sons William Rufus and Robert where given land, Robert was given Normandy, and William England. They where quite friendly at first, however later Robert would help rebels in England, which really all it did was hurt him, because the rebels failed as he didnt show up to help. Later, his other brother Henry would rebel, and take control of England and Normandy, once William Rufus dies. However, maybe have Robert never support those rebels, and on top of that have William not die in a hunting accident, then we see Henry not take the throne in England, and possibly have an independent Normandy.
 
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As I said, it's how I did it in my TL. Sorry for the confusion. :p

Ah already. Well its really well formulated.

Hey what do you think of the stuff I've mentioned in the last posts about idea's for this world. As well as the last update? I would just like to know if I handled Alfonz right.
 
Also here is what I had in mind for the area, this map shows France and her Vassals, a Normandy which remains independent and conquers Anjou with help from his brother, an independent Aquitaine if its possible, Toulouse, and Brittany. Oh and also theres Auvergne who is still independent from France I believe, and at least here I think I gave them Limoges, and the County of La Marchie. Keep in mind this is not a final map, just a map of a compilation of ideas.

FRANCIA 2.png
 
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