Ride the Wave Hapsburg!- A Spring of nations Timeline

Van555

Dedication: Thanks to Eurofed and nivek for the guidance and inspiration to do this Timeline Idea. I will try to make it not completely cliche or nonsensical and try to make this World a better place.

Note: To Imperial Vienna, I really want to try this but my Hapsburg knowledge is not the best. If I make a huge Mistake please point it out immediately

Constructive criticism and Comments are welcome.
 

Van555

1. What if.... Hapsburg

Modern European History is of the often said to begin at The French Revolution or at the Congress of Vienna. This is very much true for the Hapsburg Domains as well. Proposed by The Austrian Metternich as a tool of stability after the devastating Napoleonic Wars, the Concert of Nations and war exhaustion seemed to have succeeded at their goal as peace though balance of power reigned. However the Hapsburg Empire was not in the best of shape, No longer master of the defunct Holy Roman Empire. It was merely the most powerful realm in Germany and central Europe and even in Germany it had A competitor, Prussia. Prussia, formerly a second rate power was Quickly Becoming A major player mu h to the disadvantage of Austria. Meanwhile The reactionary leaders of Europe tried to turn back the Clock on the changes napoleon made to Europe by Unleashing Nationalism on the world. Even with Zollverein The German people were Unsatisfied by the lack of change. Meanwhile For three decades much of Europe experienced unrest and tensions of ethnic and economic conflict.

So it was with this in the background that the abdication of Louis-Phillipe In France set off a wave of Revolution that shook Europe to its core, many kingdoms had to change their laws at threat of the mob. Eventually However the forces of the Reactionary thrones put Everyone into line and thus the conservative empires continued. This in the end was bad for Austria as almost 20 years later they lost dominance in Germany, and 50 years after that they lost their empire to Self determination and Nationalism.

So what if the Hapsburg family had ridden the wave of nationalism instead of fighting it?
 
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Gustavus Adolphus

Van555 said:
Modern European History is of the often said to begin at The French Revolution or at the Congress of Vienna. This is very much true for the Hapsburg Domains as well. Proposed by The Austrian Metternich as a tool of stability after the devastating Napoleonic Wars, the Concert of Nations and war exhaustion seemed to have succeeded at their goal as peace though balance of power reigned. However the Hapsburg Empire was not in the best of shape, No longer master of the defunct Holy Roman Empire. It was merely the most powerful realm in Germany and central Europe and even in Germany it had A competitor, Prussia. Prussia, formerly a second rate power was Quickly Becoming A major player mu h to the disadvantage of Austria. Meanwhile The reactionary leaders of Europe tried to turn back the Clock on the changes napoleon made to Europe by Unleashing Nationalism on the world. Even with Zollverein The German people were Unsatisfied by the lack of change. Meanwhile For three decades much of Europe experi
enced unrest and tensions of ethnic and economic conflict.





Then you know what would happen.... We'd have Habsburgs who are smart and intelligent rulers:0:0:0:0:eek::eek:
So it was with this in the background that the abdication of Louis-Phillipe In France set off a wave of Revolution that shook Europe to it's core, many kingdoms had to change their laws at threat of the mob. Eventually However
the forces of the Reactionary thrones put Everyone into line and thus the conservative empires continued. This in the end was bad for Austria as almost 20 years later they lost dominance in Germany, and 50 years after that they lost their empire to Self determination and Nationalism.

So what if the Hapsburg family had ridden the wave of nationalism instead of fighting it?
Click to expand...

Well than I gues we would have a smarter and more intelligent habsburgs:eek::eek: That would be most shocking in Europe and very tough to create.
 

Nivek

Van555 said:
never underestimate the ability of an epiphany on the toilet to create a new world
Click to expand...

HEHEHE:D:rolleyes:

I want to see who will be the Main POD here(i still have proble to found the correct one)

Anyway i wish you luck in your work

Att
Nivek von Beldo
 

Van555

Thanks it will probably be a realization in around march '48 that nationalism is the way of the future thus he along with archduchess Sophie steer the Ferdinand regency in that direction by backing up the Frankfort assembly
 

Van555

(Taken from "Franz Joseph, The Surprise Liberator" Schuster and Simon, 1992)

March 13th, 1848 a day to change the World?

" It is one of the Oddities of History, that Prince Franz Joseph heir to the house of House Hapsburg veered politically to the left in what seemed like one day. Common knowledge of The times suggests that he like many other nobles Even to this day nobody can really say for sure what turned him around to the liberal path he was soon to follow. Many speculate on the exact reason, many an counter factual has been proposed where he followed the seemingly more logical path. The speculations are many, Secret Contact with Bohemian artists (1), the more idealistic feel it was his Contact with the common foot soldier as a young adolescent (2). The more cynical feel it was a mix of luck, opportunism,his political readings on Britain and Debates with more liberal Nobles/Intellectuals. (3). Popular myth has it that as he was taking a bath he slipped on some soap and hit his head on the floor and exclaimed "Eureka, The people, why not Harness the people!"(4) Whatever it was that caused this turn of events by the morning of the 14th of March 1848 that the world had reached a point of departure from which it could never return."

1- this is unlikely but it could have happened given minor encounters or changes in Franz Josephs childhood.

2- This may not be a change but people In TTL are always gonna wonder so they might grasp at straws to make sense of it.

3- They do always say books let you enter a new world. :cool:

4- This is the most fun one but it's sort of like Washington and the cherry tree but the phrase is on the lips of the liberal members of the government throughout the next three days.
 
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Van555

The 14-15th of March: the day of change

2. The days of change (1)

With Metternich Gone, Ferdinand was at a loss of what to do there was no other conservative to replace him, and well he know he couldn't do it alone. As he was fretting with his breakfast. He was surprised to see his heir sit down across from him. What his son described to him was unbelievably grim, that the empire of family was doomed to be torn apart due to different nationalities and agendas that Jacobite Republicans would prevail if we stayed the current course was held. Ferdinand ,never the sharpest tool in the shed, responded with the first thing he could think of. " we could just use the army" he responded Almost reflexively.

(Taken from "Franz Joesph , The Surprise Liberator" Schuster and Simon, 1992)

"The Breakfast Conversation was a spectacular success in almost any measurement. Within the span of what turned into a brunch meeting all of Franz Joesph's Goals had been met. with help of his mother he convinced Ferdinand to step down by the end the year and leave decision making to him and the ministers he would want appointed. everything was now in place for the great paradigm shift in European politics. He had also ordered that a group of messengers with smaller detachments of men be sent to the vassals in Italy as well as military commanders such as Radeztky be sent specific instructions to be opened in a few days.

With the stage set as the people of Vienna began protesting in the afternoon, an announcement was made to the world with a message directly from the monarch (Actually Franz Joesph) that many couldn't believe. It was definitely not the "cease and desist or be crushed that was to be expected.

"The people across Europe have begun speak up and agitate for a new fair order in the world. Many are going to react harshly, as many have to me in the past few days " We need to send soldiers to bring things back to order" or " we can't let Jacobite win they must be silenced the empire will break". however after having conferred with my family and friends, I have found a New way forward". It will neither a revolutionary Terror of the French style nor Brutal crushing of decent by soldiers as the russians would do with thier Cossack horseman. No, the new way is to let the people have a voice... and have them have a Say In the nation they Live in. I now therefore announce that by this time next year you will have a say in how your National Homeland. From this day Forward you shall have a the right to gather, worship and be informed without unfair restriction. Let it be known a Change is coming to How the European Continent works and things will never be the same again. Beware however that there forces that oppose this change, and we must not let them stop us"(2)

With this announcement the Austrian empire and the was changed in a quite few ways:
1. Free Press , Freedom of Religion, freedom to gather were granted immediately in practice
2. A constitution was announced
3. Instructions sent out that day and yesterday were received
4. The Conservative Elements of the country were caught flat footed as too how too respond they now scrambled to find someone royal who opposed such drastic change
5. Liberal elements and the common people were ecstatic that there demands and more had been listened too and accepted.
6. the new ministers under Metternich opponent Count Franz Anton von Kolowrat-Liebsteinsky began to get to work with the reform and diplomatic nuancese and backroom dealings that would assure succes

It was the next day that surprised everyone, even those who Benefited most were still in a daze and this shocked them.

On march 15th, 1848 a Bloodless coup occurred in Pest and Buda which led by Lajos Kossulth and others declared themselves independent of Austria. the most optimistic among them they expected to be left alone for awhile to prepare for Austrian counterattack. What they Did not expect was to be immediately recognized as a sovereign nation for only the price paid for it would be making Karl Ludwig "Some sort of constitutional monarch" as Franz put down in the private note sent to revolutionaries. The other conditions would an "eternal alliance" with tellingly with "Austria or whatever state succeeds Austria" and a vague statement that promised minority protection. It took the Hungarian government a grand total of 10 minutes to agree. As a secretary to the Regent-president said in his diary " 5 minutes were shock, 4 and a half minutes were cheering and 30 seconds were for affirmation. thus the the Kingdom of Hungary was officially reborn on the evening of March the 15th just as the march laws were passed. Both inside the realm's conservative circles and in the outside world the great powers were shifting from surprise to apprehension. Yet the Spring of nations and year of revolution had just begun.

1- I Decided to retcon the realization to February at Louis-Phillipe's Dismissal to allow time for both revelation and planning.

2- I know that it's really anachronistic, cheesy, and a bit too bold. Once I heard it in president eden's voice so I had to finish it.

Thoughts, Criticisms, Comments, Grammar Corrections?
 
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Nivek

The POD was... not very glamorous indeed(that remember LttW in some way,:D) and some of the develpoment during the 1848 in fact for me.. Border the ASB(specially the Hungary part.. even if some of the Revolter are in some way more reactionary than liberals.. or was backward?) but indeed very good so far(but again the 'details' than the division and the commons plans for the empire being previolsly discused must have an part)

Now, we gonna see the rest of the German States Reactions and the Prussia Reactions, the Plans in Italy(with Emperor Maxilimilian) and the International Respones.. we have a lot of fun here

watching the updates

Att
Nivek von Beldo
 

Van555

Thanks this is a Pretty rough draft

But I Think I can pull off Hungary Accepting because the vague phrase " protecting minorities" doesn't mean much for decades and Both the reactionaries and Liberals want independence and they got it. with a habsburg king who is Going to be Pretty hands off to keep the throne ... so i think they have to sort themselves right?
 

Van555

Reactions of Nations- summary first two days

Britain: The balance of Europe is in danger!, begin to mobilize... the Russians could use this opportunity!

Mood-:eek: Alarmed

Prussia- What the hell! what in God's name is Austria doing... It's createing more chaos by going liberal . The only reason to do this would be uniting... Germany, but why loose an entire country and go liberal to loose to us?

Mood::confused: disconcerted

USA: Spread of Freedom continues! I guess... doesn't really much anyway but good luck

mood:;) Apathetic

Russia: Liberalism and Nationalism supported by The Hapsburg family ? On RODINA's Borders? Unacceptable prepare the Army!

mood::mad: scared and furious

Ottomans: The Non- Russian Multicultural Empire is collapsing,this doesn't bode well!

mood::( dejected

Hungary: WOO! I can't believe that worked, now we can do things on our own as true country. Now as the bastion of the new liberal... no conservative...no liberal..well new order any way we can now... Wait, We didn't authorize an autonomous Serbian Province! What do Mean says we can't crush them outright... well shoot! Lets just make them go away for awhile. I mean it's not like Serbian thing more than a fad right... we shouldn't have these problems!

mood::eek: well we got what we want now what

Austria: You know it's great were "free" and all but giving up Hungary like that makes me feel kinda down. The conservative part of me is starting to get pissed right the hell off! We do get to vote though Which is pretty sweet.
well bear with but don't eff it up franz!

mood::) cautiously optimistic

Parma, Tuscany, Moderna- We keep our estates and Most of our wealth Right? Ok this better work Franz or else you toast too!

mood: Worried

Papal State, Sicily: the people our getting more restless everyday! We hope that the Hungarian separation ended the tensions or else were in trouble. Wait A second where the hell is the disruption coming from anyway? It's not Sardinia even though they would normally be the ones to suspect. So what's going on... is it liberal Austria?

Mood::eek:

Sardinia: at last the Hapsburgs are breaking! Northern Italy shall be ours! We know they have A Liberal Constitution, It doesn't matter we will succeed! You know the king just doesn't like you Garibaldi, you are dismissed.

mood::D

France: All right were a republic again yeah! Wait why is Austria Dissolving, That's unusual but eh well deal with it later. No it can't be nah, we dealt that idea a fatal blow. Unless?

Mood::cool: trying to be cool as a cucumber

So there you have the reactions of the first few Days!

Do you guys like the Style at all? If not it should find a consistent style soon enough, I Trying to find the right style and pace right now.

Please let me know comments, criticism, suggestions, grammar?
I'd like to hear it all!

Next time: The Italian Gambit! A Peninsula at war!
 

MNP

You should have titled this "Surf's Up Austria!"

...and this will be my only comment in this thread.
 

Van555

Official Revision: Reactions is still canon

Pod: A more liberal Franz Joesph at some point in his life

Austrian events

Feb 23, 1848 - Orleans monarchy Overthrown

Feb 24, 1848 - Franz Joseph Slips in Bath, Epiphany ( Main Point of Departure)

Feb 25, 1848 through March 13th - Franz Joseph Begins to Prepare for his Grand Plan by contacting liberal groups/ moderate groups throughout Europe.

March 13th, 1848- secret Suggestions are sent out to Officials in many parts of the empire, they are to be confirmed by a change in the Capital

Conservative Officers/ nobles are weirded out, thinking this must be a mistake or a forgery

March 14th, 1848- The Breakfast Conversation, Princess Sophia And heir to the throne Franz manage to get Ferdinand alone and get him to turn over decision making to them and appoint nominally liberal ministers led by Count Franz Anton von Kolowrat-Liebsteinsky to lead government.

Later That day the famous "Stupefying Memo" is promulgated.It ends up Promising upcoming elections, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and a rough constitution Promising "a lower house elected by the people and an upper house appointed by the state" Specifics are not mentioned but (town) councils are now encouraged. Unfortunately not specifying town in the councils means that workers begin to prepare unions... which is a Little too far at the moment.

Conservative Elements in the Nation are caught flatfooted

March 15th, 1848 - The Nation of Hungary declares Independence From Austria In a bloodless coup of Reactionary administrators. The Provisional ambassador from Austria Signals that he has received instructions to recognize the new government ,which is surprising to The new government led by President-Regent Lajos Kossulth. However their are a few conditions that must be met. The Hungarians must have Franz's brother Karl Ludwig be in Franz's words "some sort of Constitution monarch", that an "eternal alliance" must be signed and that they must in some way "protect minorities".

Though the Hungarian Provisional government is rather divided on many issues, it quickly agrees to these conditions. Though Based on the writings of those who were seems to indicate there was a significant faction that feels that this is a great opportunity for a brighter future. However archival information, and the hidden diaries of some involved paint a much more cynical picture of the Agreement. Conservatives disliked the idea of minority protection clause no matter how vague. Meanwhile the Liberals had wanted a republic above all else. Meanwhile The Centrists Were who were trying to hold the country together were honestly just thinking that it would be at most a years respite before the Austrians came back to stomp them. Then again if they were serious it would allow the nation to stabilize and establish itself. As this was going on the March laws were be written to make the evolution to permanently legitimize the new nation.


So is this clearer than before? My next update coming up later today but seriously I would to hear form you!
 
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Van555

What if.com- Challenge- Failed spring of Nations

Cluster doughnut: I know this is asked A lot but could the 48 Revolutions have failed To do anything, like what if had been crushed by all involved.

It56: ASB, Something would've happed those opposed would have been overthrown and Republics put in their place. Nationalism could not have been held back.

Commissar padre: I'd Disagree here, from what I've read About the revolutions themselves It was almost ASB that it actually worked and only a month of planning from someone who had a complete turn face for almost no particular reason. Why if something that hit the board it would be seen as rather a terrible wank!

Cluster doughnut: If the all powers turned reactionary would the catholic church stayed as one piece?

Shadowcow: Nah, most theologians agree the split was inevitable...



So what do you guys think? I thought I'd do something the good timelines do!
 
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Van555

Map of Europe Before Aand during Spring of Nations!

For Reference

Though it may not be the most liked thing on the Board I'm gonna continue this timeline Anyway. Mostly because that shouldn't matter anyway!

But still I appreciate any comments.

Real update coming soon.

also how do you uplaod maps? :(
 
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Nivek

Using a web image server... like Imageshack, photobucket... etc

Umm, still have some issues with the pausability(mainly with the POD.. the original POD or who i have in mind was more ... 'organized' than the yours by the way, specially with several big detalis.. like the Hungary separation) but again.. you're jumping so early out of germany. because the main question was not answer... do you really buy out prussia or plan something diferent(who is difficult.. an agression will attrack both Russia and Britain and means the end of all plans)

well... you divided the catholic Chruch... if not is the clasiccal liberal-socialist eurofed cliche of the two catholic('liberal-socialist'vs reactionary) care little for me(even if i was 'catholic' before being muslim)

waiting for more... i want to see what will happen in Italy.

Att
Nivek von Beldo

P.S. The Austria part of the Empire still have Trieste? because if not.. the navy will be the responsability of Prussia and we gonna lost the not so bad Austria navy(in the future... Germany Medditeranean Fleet) giving Prussia more political Leverage(you know with the Kleindeutches losung was the succesful one)
 
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