Richard I of England marries

The marriage never took place because Alys was keep in custody by Henry II and was rumored to being his mistress and so after his father's death Richard decided he will never marry her. If Henry had married her to Richard when they had the right age that match would have likely great consequences:
1) it will reinforced the alliance between Richard and Philip August (who were often allies against Henry when he was alive)
2) will remove the cause of the antagonism between Richard and Philip during the third Crusade (who was caused exactly by the broken engagement and Richard subsequent marriage)

so the consequences of a such wedding are important also in a like OTL situation.

Professor you had make a little confusion here: Adele of Champagne was Louis VII's third wife (and the mother of his OTL heir Philip August and Agnes) while Alys and her older sister Marguerite (also daughter-in-law of Henry II as wife of Henry, the Young King) were daughters of the second wife Constance of Castile

Okay interesting, so let's say the children of Richard and Alys are:

Richard b 1174

Eleanor b 1176

Henry b 1178

Beregaria b 1180

What consequences and fun stuff does this now bring?
 
Professor you had make a little confusion here: Adele of Champagne was Louis VII's third wife (and the mother of his OTL heir Philip August and Agnes) while Alys and her older sister Marguerite (also daughter-in-law of Henry II as wife of Henry, the Young King) were daughters of the second wife Constance of Castile

Ah, thank you. Always do that since an erroneous family tree!

Summary (from that 'pedia) of Louis' children by his three marriages:
with Eleanor of Aquitaine:

with Constance of Castile:

with Adele of Champagne:

 
Ah, thank you. Always do that since an erroneous family tree!

Summary (from that 'pedia) of Louis' children by his three marriages:
with Eleanor of Aquitaine:

with Constance of Castile:

with Adele of Champagne:


Ah very useful thank you.

So yes, if Richard and Alys marry and then have issue from say around 1174/75, would that make Richard more or less likely to do some of the things he did in OTL?
 
Okay interesting, so let's say the children of Richard and Alys are:

Richard b 1174

Eleanor b 1176

Henry b 1178

Beregaria b 1180

What consequences and fun stuff does this now bring?

I will change the name of the younger daughter... Maud/Matilda, Margaret/Marguerite, Alix/Adele, Joan, Mary/Marie are all more logical choices for a daughter of Richard and Alys... Alys was born at the end of 1160 so is unlikely her wedding will be consumated before 1176... So if Richard will still become King and departed for the Crusade like OTL in 1189 they can have children starting in 1177 until 1190 (13 years)...

Richard will still likely left his mother as Regent while he was away but unlike OTl he will left in good terms with the fellow crusader leader and brother-in-law the King of France and having sons he will left with a clear succession line for both England (plus Normandy) Aquitaine (who he governed in name of his mother). So the Crusade have a good chance to be longer and still more succesful (indipendently from the Emperor's death or survival during the journey) because OTL the Third Crusade suffered from the bad relations between Richard and Philip (who were the highest leaders with the Emperor's death) and between Richard and Leopold of Austria (who was the leader of the Imperial forces after Fredrick I's death) and in the end Richard was forced to left the Holy Land without trying to retake Jerusalem because he had not anymore European allies there and at home John Lackland and Philip II of France were plotting againtst him. With Richard married to Alys and father of sons you can butterfly much of this troubles because Philip will not have any reason to go against his friend, usual ally and brother-in-law and John will not have any chance to become King or regent so will not have neither reasons nor following for tryiung anything. So you can have a more successful Third Crusade able to retake Jerusalem and totally restore the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Butterfly Philip and Richard's fallout (who was caused by the question of Alys) and butterfly John succession and you will also mantain the integrity of the Angevin Empire for at least another generation or two
 
I will change the name of the younger daughter... Maud/Matilda, Margaret/Marguerite, Alix/Adele, Joan, Mary/Marie are all more logical choices for a daughter of Richard and Alys... Alys was born at the end of 1160 so is unlikely her wedding will be consumated before 1176... So if Richard will still become King and departed for the Crusade like OTL in 1189 they can have children starting in 1177 until 1190 (13 years)...

Richard will still likely left his mother as Regent while he was away but unlike OTl he will left in good terms with the fellow crusader leader and brother-in-law the King of France and having sons he will left with a clear succession line for both England (plus Normandy) Aquitaine (who he governed in name of his mother). So the Crusade have a good chance to be longer and still more succesful (indipendently from the Emperor's death or survival during the journey) because OTL the Third Crusade suffered from the bad relations between Richard and Philip (who were the highest leaders with the Emperor's death) and between Richard and Leopold of Austria (who was the leader of the Imperial forces after Fredrick I's death) and in the end Richard was forced to left the Holy Land without trying to retake Jerusalem because he had not anymore European allies there and at home John Lackland and Philip II of France were plotting againtst him. With Richard married to Alys and father of sons you can butterfly much of this troubles because Philip will not have any reason to go against his friend, usual ally and brother-in-law and John will not have any chance to become King or regent so will not have neither reasons nor following for tryiung anything. So you can have a more successful Third Crusade able to retake Jerusalem and totally restore the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

Butterfly Philip and Richard's fallout (who was caused by the question of Alys) and butterfly John succession and you will also mantain the integrity of the Angevin Empire for at least another generation or two

Interesting so as a revision we have:

Richard b 1177

Eleanor b 1179

Henry b 1180

Matilda b 1184

------------

And interesting, so with a more successful third crusade, would Richard return to England without any of the problems he faced on the journey home? Might he reign longer as a consequence?
 
Interesting so as a revision we have:

Richard b 1177

Eleanor b 1179

Henry b 1180

Matilda b 1184

------------

And interesting, so with a more successful third crusade, would Richard return to England without any of the problems he faced on the journey home? Might he reign longer as a consequence?
If he can avoid the conflict with the Duke of Austria he will not have trouble at all in returning at home... But in any case the OTL third Crusade was highly succesful only was not able to reach everything they wanted...

His OTL's death is something almost ASB so is likely he will live longer in different circumstances
 
If he can avoid the conflict with the Duke of Austria he will not have trouble at all in returning at home... But in any case the OTL third Crusade was highly succesful only was not able to reach everything they wanted...

His OTL's death is something almost ASB so is likely he will live longer in different circumstances

Okay interesting, and if he does live longer, what does this spell for Angevin possessions within France? Say Geoffrey lives and remains as Duke of Brittany, what consequences does this bring?
 
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