Rhineland Republic

During the Paris Peace Conference France was somewhat interested in creating a new German state out of the land west of the Rhine. This was thought to be a perfect buffer zone for German forces to cross through. While this was kicked down by Wilson, Llyod George and the Itlian Prime Minister Orlando showed some interested.

Now WI Wilson was swayed to such an idea? Rhineland was to be free of reparations, given aide by the allies, and all the other perks to new nations in the post war period. Would such a Republic last? If not would taking such a place lead to war with the allies?
 
That probably would have stopped the invasion of France in world war 2. Because if this state was supported by the allies then as soon as Germany invaded then the French would have advanced warning. The same with Belgium because no one wanted to repeat that scenario.
 
How would a Rhineland Republic effect the stability of Germany and how would people in the Rhineland react to being split from the rest of Germany?
 
Depends on what you mean by "people". IOTL there were significant independence movements in the Rhineland and Bavaria, but they were by no means all-inclusive of the population. IMHO there would have been a few people who were really for it, the majority who would have reluctantly accepted it, at least initially (after all, there was reluctant acceptence of occupation of the Rhineland by the allies, and a puppet state isn't all that different) and another minority who would have been quite against it.

Within Germany itself, it would give ammunition to the hard left and hard right parties to a far greater degree than the OTL occupation. Whether they would have been able to take advantage of this opportunity is another question entirely.
 

Susano

Banned
Depends on what you mean by "people". IOTL there were significant independence movements in the Rhineland and Bavaria, but they were by no means all-inclusive of the population.
Bullshit. The Rhenian independance movement was a joke entirely carried by the French occupation troops. Thatsthe reaosnw hy there couldnt be a Rhenish Republic, or at elats not for a long time: It would have to be a republic that has to be defended against its own people! It wouldnt have been a minority against it, it would have been a stark majority. The situation in Bavaria is more complex, but basically what it boils down to is that any opposition to Berlin was of ideologcial nature (first the Munich Soviet Republic and then the rightwing, anti-republican dictatorship in Bavaria), and not seperatism.
 
Bullshit. The Rhenian independance movement was a joke entirely carried by the French occupation troops. Thatsthe reaosnw hy there couldnt be a Rhenish Republic, or at elats not for a long time: It would have to be a republic that has to be defended against its own people! It wouldnt have been a minority against it, it would have been a stark majority. The situation in Bavaria is more complex, but basically what it boils down to is that any opposition to Berlin was of ideologcial nature (first the Munich Soviet Republic and then the rightwing, anti-republican dictatorship in Bavaria), and not seperatism.
"Significant" the way I used it means "more than the tiniest possible little sect", not "an independent mass movement"...

Apologies for not being clear.

Also, my first Susano-chastisement. Excellent.
 
The Rhenian independance movement was a joke entirely carried by the French occupation troops.
Do you mean that French inspired people like Adenauer or that French troops presence was enough to spur a separatist movement?
I also remember reading that Rhenish separatism was partially the result of Germany's dreadful economic crisis at the time. Isn't that true? AFAIK potential Rhenish Republic economical situation would always be better than the situation in Rhine-less Germany, since Rhenish Republic could easly find markets for it's industrial products.
Thatsthe reaosnw hy there couldnt be a Rhenish Republic, or at elats not for a long time:
How much is "long time" in your opinion? Up to next goverment change in France? Or maybe the whole interwar period?
 

Susano

Banned
Well, as Ive said in that othe rthread, Adenauer seemed to have an anti-east-germanyism complex or something, which is why Rhenish Republic or West German Republic both suited him fine...hes in that a special case, but in another way hes quite typical: As Lord Mayor of Cologne, he did look out for the welfare of his people, of course, and theres a point in that being easier when the occupation troops are not hostile to the current administrative buildup... I think Adenauer wouldve tried to arrange himself with the French to the point of accepting a Rhenish Republic, and so would have others, but thats of course quite something different from agitation for a Rhenish Republic, from a real movement. And I do think the number of people whod be ready to arrange themselves would be rather slim.

The real movement was indeed just French puppets, and just a tiny amount of them. Some people would indeed have accepted a Rhenish Republic to better the econimcial situation, due to the occupation troops then not being hostile anymore - that this would case is a rather easy conclusion to make, after all. I just dont think it would have been all that many.

As for long - for as long as the French would have propped up the puppet government. Which would indeed depend on the government in charge in France, but I cant see the Popular front investing many ressources on that. Especially not with Britain facepalming and muttering how fucking stupid this all is :p And with how the country would have to be run undemocratically, basically, probably under some petexts of constantly shifting elections or somesuch... Maybe a leftist French government wouldnt let the Rhenish puppet government outright fall, but would gradually witdhraw support until it collapses...
 
It could be noted that Rhenish separatism was not quite the same thing as Rhenish independence. The independence wing of it was mostly a joke (at least, the ones working for that goal openly and with that intention clear), but for a time, it was a joke supported by the official military in the area, if I've understood it correctly.

It would, mayhap, be better if this Rhenish state could claim not to be a Rhenish state. To explain: coup (of some sort) in Germany before the French occupation ends, the democracy falls- maybe something succesful Kapp Putsch-like. Then the Rhenish separatist strains could be united with people wanting to be in a democratic Germany, if the Rhenish state's name is less specific then, er, Rhenish Republic- Union of German Countries, etc. That might work slightly better...
 
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