Revolutions of 1848 successful: what happens to minorities?

[Winston Smith]

Let's say the revolutions of 1848 are successful. Focusing in particular on Germany: if a unified German state on liberal nationalist lines was formed, what would happen to the Poles who remained under Prussian control and the Hungarians and Slavs (Poles, Ukrainians, Croatians) under former Austrian rule?

 

[wolf_brother]

It depends on how you accomplish the revolutions. Some of the revolutionaries were for including the minorities to one extent or another, arguing that they were in fact not minorities at all; Germans used this argument with the Jews for instance, arguing that they were merely German Jews, not a separate nationality. Or in the case of the Poles they were willing to offer up roughly 1/3rd of Posen as some sort of autonomous Polish duchy within a unified German state. On the other hand some of the revolutions were inherently contradictory to an extent; many of the Viennese and Prague revolutionaries didn't wish to see an end of the Hapsburg empire, they only wanted to modernize and reform it, where as the Hungarian nobles and peasants of course were revolting for their independence. The same with Danes & Germans in the First Schleswig War; the Danes wished to reform and modernize their country, bringing Schleswig & Holstein into the whole, where as the German minority in those two duchies wished to join a unified German state. So it'll depend on how things play out.

You also have to consider what you mean by 'successful' 1848 revolutions. The French were certainly successful in overthrowing the July Monarchy, but the Second Republic was exceedingly short-lived, and even before the reign of Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte certainly saw an end to what most of the February Revolutionaries had fought for with the end of the National Workshops after the June Days.

Also, are you only looking at the revolutions of 1848 in France, Poland, Hungary, and the German & Italian states? Because they were other, similar, movements in Spain, Switzerland, Britain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Romania, and Serbia during the same period that could have produced successful revolts with the appropriate POD(s), and in many of those areas minorities will certainly be an important issue during, and after, the revolution.

 

[Shawn Endresen]

The Silesian Poles were explicitly aiming for independence; "success" means Krakow is an independent state rather than part of the Habsburgs anymore. I'm not really clear on what the aims of the Posen Poles were - not many records survive - but independence doesn't appear to have been an explicit part of it, particularly since their nominal leader appears to have been an archbishop. Assuming a revolutionary government is in place in Berlin, Posen will in all probability come to terms with said government quickly.

This leaves a mess in Poland going down the road; Prussian Poland and Russian Poland will both find Krakow's independence fascinating and perhaps threatening. It's an unstable situation indeed.

 

[kalamona]

On the other hand some of the revolutions were inherently contradictory to an extent; many of the Viennese and Prague revolutionaries didn't wish to see an end of the Hapsburg empire, they only wanted to modernize and reform it, where as the Hungarian nobles and peasants of course were revolting for their independence.

I cannot speak for the other countries, but regarding Hungary, it started as a pure modernization/reformist revolution (with demands like the demolition of feudalism, serfdom, land reform, general taxation, universal suffrage (okay, male and cenzus, but anyway), more autonomy for the counties, aboilition of censorship, etc)

The independence came later (practically, when the Habsburg gone hardcore with FJ)

 

[wolf_brother]

I cannot speak for the other countries, but regarding Hungary, it started as a pure modernization/reformist revolution (with demands like the demolition of feudalism, serfdom, land reform, general taxation, universal suffrage (okay, male and cenzus, but anyway), more autonomy for the counties, aboilition of censorship, etc)

The independence came later (practically, when the Habsburg gone hardcore with FJ)

Yes and no. The majority certainly didn't turn towards independence until after the Vienna Uprising, but there was certainly a core group of revolutionaries who wished for independence from the start, and they were the ones largely leading the revolutionary movement.

 

[kalamona]

Yes and no. The majority certainly didn't turn towards independence until after the Vienna Uprising, but there was certainly a core group of revolutionaries who wished for independence from the start, and they were the ones largely leading the revolutionary movement.

Yes and No .

The radical youth wanted independence, republic and so on. They were radical, after all .
But the majority, the not so siletn majority wanted only the reforms, and mostly the economical ones. They seen the politival ones as "foam on the cake".

 

[wolf_brother]

Yes and No .

The radical youth wanted independence, republic and so on. They were radical, after all .
But the majority, the not so siletn majority wanted only the reforms, and mostly the economical ones. They seen the politival ones as "foam on the cake".

... You just said I everything I have in a slightly different way. If you agreed there was no need to state my points all over again.

 

[King Gorilla]

Let's say the revolutions of 1848 are successful. Focusing in particular on Germany: if a unified German state on liberal nationalist lines was formed, what would happen to the Poles who remained under Prussian control and the Hungarians and Slavs (Poles, Ukrainians, Croatians) under former Austrian rule?

I suspect alot of them will end up immigrating, much like the 1848'ers of OTL.