Revolutions of 1848 in America

Japhy

Banned
So, does anyone have any idea how to get the revolts that swept across Europe and nearly toppled governments to make its way to the United States? That is to say, any way to create working class violence in the United States against the goverment during the same period?
 

maverick

Banned
Hmmm...the first think that comes to mind...

1. Kill Andrew Jackson, thus preventing the birth of Jacksonian Democracy; From what I've heard, Jacksonian Democracy spread the power from the hands of a few upper class men to more people, mostly party hacks, but hey, at least those weren't semi-aristocrats?

2. Maybe more industrialization...having more oppressed workers would do wonders to add revolutionary feeling.

3. More European immigrants, to import the Revolutionary ideologies of 1848.
 
So, does anyone have any idea how to get the revolts that swept across Europe and nearly toppled governments to make its way to the United States? That is to say, any way to create working class violence in the United States against the goverment during the same period?

Uh. You do know that the 1848 revolutions were liberal revolutions not socialist revolutions right? The people of Europe revolted and demanded written constitutions, parliaments, etc. The 1848 revolutions can't spread to America, because they happened when the European commoners looked at the USA and thought "I want that here."
 
You mean, how can a liberal revolution advocating constitutional rule and participation of masses in government spread to a place that already has constitutional rule and participation of the masses in government?

Tricky. You'd have to greatly curtail westward expansion, limit immigration, increase the property requirements to vote up to the point where the only people who can participate are basically the new landed aristocracy, and then somehow undo everything declared in the Declaration of independence.

Turn the United States into something akin to Hungary or Poland, somehow.
 

maverick

Banned
Uh. You do know that the 1848 revolutions were liberal revolutions not socialist revolutions right? The people of Europe revolted and demanded written constitutions, parliaments, etc. The 1848 revolutions can't spread to America, because they happened when the European commoners looked at the USA and thought "I want that here."

That's a gross over-simplification, even as bad as the one in the OP.

The Urban poor and industrial workers, not to mention the rural poor and peasants, were one of the backbones of the 1848 struggles, so we cannot either ignore it as much as we can't say it was a "socialist" revolution, which it clearly wasn't, as you point out.

For once, the different 1848 revolutions had different causes ranging from Nationalism, to Liberalism to the left-overs of the Industrialization and Demographic processes.

To get similar internal migration processes within the United States it's not impossible, and neither is to mimic some of the same social and economic conditions of the pre-1848 European scene. It's giving the revolution political causes that form the backbone of the problem posed by the OP.

Tricky. You'd have to greatly curtail westward expansion, limit immigration, increase the property requirements to vote up to the point where the only people who can participate are basically the new landed aristocracy, and then somehow undo everything declared in the Declaration of independence

Something like this, for example.
 

Japhy

Banned
Alright I really was going for a liberal revolution by the working class, I picked the wrong means of expressing that. I like Maverick's idea of removing Jacksonian Democracy, if voter requirements remain high that will certainly cause trouble as Jefferson's Aristocracy of Merit faces a majority in the country that still can't vote long after the revolution...

Or am I just sounding silly at this point?
 
Uh, best bet would be to have the Civil War start in 1848. Maybe over the expansion of slavery into Texas or the annexed Mexican territory.

Might not be in line with the rest of the 1848 revolutions, but it's your best bet for that type of conflict in the US.
 
Uh, best bet would be to have the Civil War start in 1848. Maybe over the expansion of slavery into Texas or the annexed Mexican territory.

Might not be in line with the rest of the 1848 revolutions, but it's your best bet for that type of conflict in the US.

It's really not that type of conflict though... except perhaps in the sense that it's an independence struggle and the formation of a new national identity based on preexisting culture and thus similar to, say, the Hungarian revolution.

Incidentally, the Mexican-American War largely coincided with the Spring of Nations, but the ideas animating that conflict were wholly different and more reflective of the North American reality.

The key fact remains: the United States already had what the 1848'ers wanted. Any attempt to descibe it as an early expression of Marxism is wholly revisionist.
 
Dorr's Rebellion (1841–1842) in Rhode Island came closest to an American 1848. There was also a German farmer's rebellion against the Dutch descended patroons in New York State around this time.

As others have said Jacksonian democracy, by moving further towards liberal democracy and bringing more people-farmers, artisans, and workers into the system, forestalled anything like 1848 in the US.

Perhaps with a POD in the 1780s, with a more aristocratic US, or perhaps Alexander Hamilton living longer and helping create some sort of financial aristocracy, might get a US 1848.
 
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