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I didn't write this myself, so that's why I have the prefix in the thread title.

Wendish Pagnism and Cathars gone wild!

Zeno said:
The most successful Crusades, in terms of setting up hardcore Catholic states and holding them, were not in the Middle East but rather in Europe itself. The most successful of these was the Albigensian Crusade, in which the exceedingly popular dualist/Christian Cathars were, over the course of twenty years, totally wiped out.
Fifty years earlier, the Wends, whose paganism was apparently becoming highly organized and resistant to conversion, had been dealt a blow by an earlier Crusade.

What happened:
The Wends, unable to pull themselves together enough, were beaten badly and their lands destroyed. They did not present a serious threat again. Half a century later, Cathars took over southern France. They looked in good position to hold it, and their religion was percolating into the general population well. The Crusade destroyed their political power and returned Catholicism firmly to the region.

What might have happened:
If a Crusade against the Wends had happened earlier and been badly organized - like the People's Crusade (crushed utterly by the Turks) or the Children's Crusade (disbanded when the crusaders were sold into slavery) - the Wendish religion and political unity might have come together at last. This early crusade would have been beaten back, and the second, better funded one would not have made much headway either.

The effects:
A pocket of ethnically-based paganism survives in Eastern Europe, and a few good Kings and generals grow the Wendish kingdom. Anti-Christians from surrounding regions (who were often the elites - rich and better educated) fled to this Wendish kingdom. The main Crusading obsessions from 1150 onward are not in the Middle East but Wendland and its small slavic allies. However, Wendland has an advantage: it's small and headed by a King. It doesn't break apart into factions, since it's too small for any one bit to survive alone. The King is smoothly succeeded by his eldest son for quite a number of power-transitions. This is uncommon in Europe until about 1400, but small, homogeneous, fierce Wendland manages it.

With all their resources for Crusade heading to Wendland and making no progress, the fever of war is dimming around Europe. Then, Cathari nobles come to power in southern France. At this point there are three Catholic Kingdoms: the Holy Roman Empire, France and England. Spain is mostly Muslim. These three have their attention split between each other, Spain, Wendland, the Middle East and now south France. This is just too much.

France obviously wants to fix its Cathari problem, but the HRE is being bothered and worried by expansionist Wendland. England is trying to take Scotland and hold it, to fund Spain against the Muslims, to do something in the Middle East. The reason why the Catholics succeeded in our history is because they could deal with each problem one at a time. The addition of the Wends as a power undoes that. The HRE can't get its act together to held France out, and this time, the Cathars beat the French back. The HRE does contain Wendland for now, but the Cathari state of Languedoc has emerged. It makes quick friends with the Wends and Muslim Spain, as well as anyone who can protect it against a further Crusade, which it knows is coming.

Thirty years pass, and it's now about 1230. The young nobles of France and Germany have lived their whole lives with Languedoc free, and the urgency of destroying it is fading among the less faithful. Wendland had fallen on hard times with famines and such. France, without its southern ports, is noticeably weaker. The HRE looks at France and likes what it sees: a Franco-German war ensues which weakens both participants. This gives Wendland a bit of time to get strong again and lets Languedoc build more friendships and defenses. Crucial to this strategy is an alliance with the HRE, which the Cathars obtain. They harass French troops in the south, taking lands they don't hope to hold in order to aid Germany.

By a stroke of luck, the HRE army wins a couple big battles, but can't keep any territory. The battles are hugely expensive in money and men, and both countries are exhausted. France is so tired it can only take back about half of what the Cathars took, and with major effort. Languedoc is now strong, permanent. The HRE misses its big chance to eliminate Wendland while it's weak. North Poland and the Baltic states belong to it now. Wendland behaves half like Scandinavia - raids and quick strikes from the sea - and half like a standard European kingdom.

And this situation sticks around. There are six European powers, only three are Catholic.

* Catholic England, Germany and France
* Cathari Languedoc
* Muslim Spain
* Pagan Wendland


So what happens is that European history is much more religiously diverse. Historically, Muslim Spain didn't want to expand - they felt Europe was too cold for comfort. Wendland, I imagine, would shrink and grow over time, sometimes making large conquests southward but always restrained by the HRE to its west.
The most interesting of these new states would be Languedoc, because Cathars showed a remarkable ability to convert Catholics. Maybe northern Spain would go Cathar, leaving no Spanish Catholics in power.

So how plausible is this scenario?
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