Reverse Vinland

I`ve been thinking. Before the inuits settled Greenland other tribes had tried and failed. But what if they would have succeeded adapting the same way inuits did.

Old historybooks tend to date the settlement of Iceland to late 700s, by now it`s widely considered it probably happened a little bit earlier. One theory is that the first settlers only stayed there over the summer to hunt walrus and seals, and then sell the products in Scandinavia or Britain.

Now, you can actually see Greenland from the northwestern part of Iceland and I think vice versa. So it wouldn`t actually be a stretch for inuits to sail into one of the western fjords. They`d have the same animals to hunt, but a slightly more lush environments. Some forests and so on. Assuming they could settle in the fifth century or earlier and then come into contact with viking in 7th or 8th century what would happen?

I`m assuming the vikings might raid, but probably rather trade. They`ll have rather cheap skins, walrus teeth and so on, even dried fish in exchange for various things: weapons, alcohol, cloth, you know the usual stuff. They might not settle, or only settle some parts.

How would the culture and society develop from that point on?

are you sure that Iceland is visible from Greenland vice versia have you been there? It's a few hundred miles apart.
 
are you sure that Iceland is visible from Greenland vice versia have you been there? It's a few hundred miles apart.

Yeah, I`ve been there. I went to the westfjords last summer. And I`ve also spent one summer in Greenland. (Albeit on the other side and I was twelve:rolleyes: But we changed flights on the east side and my father pointed across the ocean and showed me where I could see Iceland). You can`t do it from downtown Reykjavik, but from the northwestern most tip of Iceland you can.
 
Very nice work you're carrying out. Just decided to look it up. :cool:
Being of Inuit descend I approve of it :D though you should change "old baba" to Ana! ;)
How about the Konebaad - womens boat/umiak. The oldest known specimen date to ca. 1500 but it is thought to have been in use since around 1000 by the Thule-culture!!! :)

Guess the Papar's would like the Christen the Sadlermiut and they just might agree; except that the idea of a warm hell may be a no-go! :D
Though just in Thule at the time it may make sense...:)

Carry on.
 
A concise history of Thule

The coming of the Papes

The first mention of Thule in written documents was written by an irish geographer in the carolingian court. Irish monks and scholars were very popular in european courts at the time due to their knowledge and skills. Liber de mensura orbis terrae by Dilcuil was written in 825 and mentions Thule or Thile briefly.

"North of Scotland on the island of Thile there is a nation whose skin is red and lives in cave. They eat only fish for earth is poisonous, worship mountains for they know not of our lord and make boats of skins. During summer the light is so bright all night long that one can pick lice from one´s shirt at midnight. For hundred years there have been monks living on the island who have tried to teach the people of Thile the worship of our lord but the islanders remain ignorant of the good word for the most part."

Since the 5th century irish missionaries had been preaching all across Europe. The conversion of England and Scotland was their work and some they had some successes in Scandinavia as well. There were "papar" as the norse called these missionaries living in small settlement in the Orkneys and Faero islands and most notably Thule. We do not know excactly when they arrived to Thule but a twelfth century manuscript written in Thule by monks in the Colomban monastery claim that the monastery was founded in 712.

"The thulites approached St. Aidan´s vessel on their small boats. The other monks feared that these strange men would surely take their lives but Aidan said:
"Be calm, for these men fear us as much as we fear them. Be thankful, we came here in search of solitude but god has given us a flock to tend"
When they stopped on St. Brendan´s island the men wanted to touch the monks for they could not believe they were truly living. The strongest of them touch Aidan´s hand and than ran screaming away.
The other men followed him to their boats and sailed away. When they were gone the monks came to Aidan and asked him what they should do.
"We should go back, the men will come again and kill us in our sleep I fear" one of them said.
Then Aidan answered:
"If they come back we shall receive them with open arms for these poor men know not of Christ and the good word."


The end of Sadlermiut culture

The Sadlermiut did not disappear of course since their descendants are still living on the island. But what we call the Sadlermiut culture named after the settlement digged up in Sadlermiutfjord came to an abrupt end in the seventh century.
It is very likely that the contact with irish missionaries brought these colossal changes in lifestyle and culture. The first major change were the plagues that killed of more than half of the population. The colomban manuscript mention that the men who helped St.Aidan to settle and found his monastery disappeared after living close to them for one year. It is possible that the white men frightened them so much that they didn´t want to live nearby. But that is unlikely since they helped these very same men survive their first winter. Aidan and his company had no plans for staying in Thule more than one summer and would have surely perished if the natives had not shared some of their food with them. When they returned from Ireland with more people, cattle and grainseeds they were surprised to find no people living there.
According to the manuscript five years passed before Aidan again encountered the "Thulites." Why did such a long time pass?

Of course it is pure speculation that Aidan´s company transmitted european diseases to them. But it is not unprecedented. Research has indicated that between 700-730 Sadlermiut people were dying in droves, and relatively densely settled fjords became empty. It may have been a mixed blessing. According to maritime biologists at the university of Bergen this in fact saved Thule from an environmental disaster:

"Seals, walrusses and auks were all becoming scarce and in some cases people resorted to eating even dogmeat. But after 730 the seals and auk population seemed to have recovered enough for them to again become a part of their diet."

tombshrines.jpg

Part of the colomban monastery on St.Brendan´s island.

H001.jpg


St. Brendan´s island, photo taken after the 70s eruption.
 
Very nice work you're carrying out. Just decided to look it up. :cool:
Being of Inuit descend I approve of it :D though you should change "old baba" to Ana! ;)
How about the Konebaad - womens boat/umiak. The oldest known specimen date to ca. 1500 but it is thought to have been in use since around 1000 by the Thule-culture!!! :)

Guess the Papar's would like the Christen the Sadlermiut and they just might agree; except that the idea of a warm hell may be a no-go! :D
Though just in Thule at the time it may make sense...:)

Carry on.

Will carry on. Please do keep on making points regarding inuit names.:p

So, are you from Greenland originally or?
 
Will carry on. Please do keep on making points regarding inuit names.:p

So, are you from Greenland originally or?

Well yes, born in Jakobshavn/Ilulissat, West Greenland but have been living in Denmark for forty years. Did catch up on the language some years ago though haven't been tending it so it vanishes. Some bits and pieces have remained though! :D
 
Now, you can actually see Greenland from the northwestern part of Iceland and I think vice versa.


Ummm, as far as I know, the distance between Iceland and greenland is on the order of 1000km, which is quite far over the horizon. So I don't think there's visual contact between the two.
 
Ummm, as far as I know, the distance between Iceland and greenland is on the order of 1000km, which is quite far over the horizon. So I don't think there's visual contact between the two.

I just looked it up on google maps. Turns out it's about 293 km.
 
Ummm, as far as I know, the distance between Iceland and greenland is on the order of 1000km, which is quite far over the horizon. So I don't think there's visual contact between the two.

It`s a lot less than that. But anyway, I think it`d be a shame if all the comments start revolving around what you can see from the northwestern tip of Iceland and what you can see from south east Greenland. I`ve been on both sides and in both cases I saw something, now whether that is just an optical trick or not, if you ask western Icelanders they will tell you, you can see Greenland across the sea. In any case, Inuits made it from Canada to Greenland, so crossing from Greenland over to Iceland I think is not ASB. Not, easy, not likely even, but not ASB.

Now, there are several things in this TL that are doubtful. There is an ongoing debate whether any irish were in Iceland before the Norse, as well as a very lively debate (full of bitter scholars on both sides) arguing whether Iceland was settled 800 something, 700 something or 600 something. It`s all pretty fuzzy.

The biggest ASB part of this scenario is having the Dorset culture much more advanced than OTL and settling Greenland several hundred years before the fact.
 
11.

My name is David.
I no longer remember my old name. Nor the names of my parents.
They lived not far from St. Brendan´s island. On the coast.

I remember the smell of grilled Auk meat, seaweed soup and the feel of my mother´s white sealskincoat. I remember some faces, maybe I had brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts or even grandfathers and grandmothers. When I dream I dream of an whole village, but when I wake I can barely remember anything that happened. Just the faces and no names.

I can remember the day before father Aidan picked me up. Something terrible was happening in our village. My parents had boils and rashes, and there were terrible coughs. Coughs that could tear your soul apart.
I had a high fever and my mother stood crying over. Then she fell silent. And for a while there was just darkness.

According to father Aidan my people had all died and I was out in cold. Stumbling feverishly by the seaside when they saw me.
They brought me on board the boat and wrapped me in warm blankets.

I do not remember the first days at all. But once my fever subsided I could explore the island as I liked. They could not speak to me so they did not try to teach me much at first. I could wander freely although they forbade me to climb the rocks. The valley was amazing to behold, full of sheeps and in the mountains puffins soaring.

Did I miss my parents. I was six or seven winters old which is probably enough to feel sorrow. But to tell the truth I don´t know. Maybe the fever made my feelings go numb, maybe I decided to forget everything on my own, maybe the sorrow was too big for me to remember it clearly.

A year passed on the island and I soon started to learn how to speak. The first words I was taught were: Spoon, bowl, see, sit...
Soon other followed: Sheep, bird, sky, Jesus our lord and saviour, ocean, father, brother.

Aidan did not pay me much attention. We hardly ever spoke. But sometimes I noticed him looking at me secretly. As if he had big plans for me.

12.

"David, come here" father Samuel said.
"Father"
"How old are you?" the old man asked. He sat on a rock overlooking the whole island with a loaf of cheese in his hands.
"I do not know, maybe sixteen years of age or seventeen we think"
"Grown man I see" Samuel said and handed him a huge chunk of the ewe´s cheese.
"I am the youngest one here"
"Maybe so, but no longer a child" Samuel said. He looked towards the ocean.
"How many times have you gone to the mainland?"
"Three times father" David said.
The old man nodded.
"But you know that is where you came from"
"Of course father. I´ve been brought up here but I was born in Thule"
"Do you remember anything of your time there"
"No, not much. I cannot speak the Thulite language nor know their ways"
"That is a pity"
"But father I´ve learnt a lot here. I know how to read, and I can tend the land, the sheep..."
"That is so, but you do not know how to hunt a seal or row a kayak"
"No, I was too young to learn such things"
The old man nodded his head again and knuckled his brows.
"We, the brothers have been discussing this for a long while amongst us and we´ve decided that it is time for you to return"
"Return?"
"What do you think of that?"
David was absolutely dumbfounded.
"Return? To where?"
"Now you see David we´re not throwing you into the ocean. I know fully well you are a christian and a very good one. We´ve been arranging things with Uyarak..."
"Uyarak, the one who brings us whalemeat?"
"Yes, that Uyarak. He´s been happy to exchange with us meat in exchange for many things but the next time he comes we will do an even bigger trade."
David had a bad feeling about this.
"You must go with him. He will teach you how to hunt and from his family you may learn to speak your parents language..."
"But father!" David nearly shouted. "I do not wish to leave the island. I´m happy here with the brothers"
"You know nothing of the world David. You´ve not even seen a woman in your life. But you are lucky for you have great role to play"
David shook his head.
"We the brothers are old and as much as we´ve tried we´ve never succeeded in gaining the trust of those who live on the mainland. We´ve never understood their language and never been able to teach them of our lord. But you David, you could be our bridge, you could be the saviour of Thule"
 
My great-grandfathers brother Enok was known as the lightmaker of Thule - David may become the lightmaker of this Thule
”Qaamaliaq”! :)
 
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