By the way, while I like the idea and the use of Thule as a real name, wouldn't a reverse Vinland be a settlement that fails?
Reverse Vinland
- Thread starter Fabilius
- Start date
Technically, it would be a vinland that revolted from Scandinavia, then vinland colonized Scandinavia... or at least somewhere in the Old World, I think 
Anyways, this concept is very cool. Subbed'. I like aboriginal TLs, not too many here from what I've seen.
Anyways, this concept is very cool. Subbed'. I like aboriginal TLs, not too many here from what I've seen.
Technically, it would be a vinland that revolted from Scandinavia, then vinland colonized Scandinavia... or at least somewhere in the Old World, I think
What? No... The idea is that a native society colonizes parts of Europe. But Vinland was a failure, which is why I was saying the idea would be a failed attempt in Iceland. Either way Im on board.
I guess that's more right... Let's see if the Thule shall vassalize and claim Northern Europe! No not really, let's keep the ASBs out of this thread, silly me
7.
Ataneq came in the fall as he had promised Shila. This time not only she and Miksa greeted him warmly but even Tullik seemed relieved that he had made it back. Neither one of them could believe that Ataneq had convince four families to follow him.
With Ataneq came not only his brother and his wife, but also his older sister and her husband. When Ataneq had gone to find his sister he had managed to convince two other families that were newcomers to follow him as well. Last years hunting had not been to good and most people seemed to think that these days there were more people than needed in these parts.
The fjord was long enough for all of these families and even more.[1] But Tullik seemed to worry. He had originally fled after stealing his wife from a competitor and had not interacted with other hunters for more than 15 winters. His wife on the other hand had never been as happy. She volunteered to show the newcomers around, tell them what corners gave most shelter, where it was good to gather eggs or hunt for seals. In the evenings she even told stories. Stories she had maybe told her daughter countless times over the years came to life for new ears.
"She`s a lot like old Ana" Adlartok whispered to his brother.
"Yes she is... 10 winters younger but you can tell they are sisters" Ataneq answered.
Just like he had been, the others were also impressed by all the fire they could light. Never before had an autumn night been as bright and warm.
This is of course not the end of Ataneq`s tale. He lived to become old, raised many sons and daughters, hunted bears and whales with the other hunters living in the fjord and inspired those who were around him.
But this is not only Ataneq`s story and we must now skip ahead and hear the tale of his descendants.
OOC:
[1] According to one book I read one fjord sustained up to 300 people whose diet was based mostly on fishing. (Of course the OTL Icelanders had milk and lambmeat as well, but in the particular case cited here the people were didn`t own animals but possibly grew potatoes in addition to fishing).
Ataneq came in the fall as he had promised Shila. This time not only she and Miksa greeted him warmly but even Tullik seemed relieved that he had made it back. Neither one of them could believe that Ataneq had convince four families to follow him.
With Ataneq came not only his brother and his wife, but also his older sister and her husband. When Ataneq had gone to find his sister he had managed to convince two other families that were newcomers to follow him as well. Last years hunting had not been to good and most people seemed to think that these days there were more people than needed in these parts.
The fjord was long enough for all of these families and even more.[1] But Tullik seemed to worry. He had originally fled after stealing his wife from a competitor and had not interacted with other hunters for more than 15 winters. His wife on the other hand had never been as happy. She volunteered to show the newcomers around, tell them what corners gave most shelter, where it was good to gather eggs or hunt for seals. In the evenings she even told stories. Stories she had maybe told her daughter countless times over the years came to life for new ears.
"She`s a lot like old Ana" Adlartok whispered to his brother.
"Yes she is... 10 winters younger but you can tell they are sisters" Ataneq answered.
Just like he had been, the others were also impressed by all the fire they could light. Never before had an autumn night been as bright and warm.
This is of course not the end of Ataneq`s tale. He lived to become old, raised many sons and daughters, hunted bears and whales with the other hunters living in the fjord and inspired those who were around him.
But this is not only Ataneq`s story and we must now skip ahead and hear the tale of his descendants.
OOC:
[1] According to one book I read one fjord sustained up to 300 people whose diet was based mostly on fishing. (Of course the OTL Icelanders had milk and lambmeat as well, but in the particular case cited here the people were didn`t own animals but possibly grew potatoes in addition to fishing).
Last edited:
8.
Mauja smiled when they reached the peak of the mountain. Finally!
The baby had been sleeping on her back the whole time but it had still been quite a trial to cross the mountains. She didn`t complain, she was after all the grand-daughter of Ataneq who had first climbed these mountains.
"It is going to be easier from now on" her husband Iluq promised her.
Obviously going down would be a lot easier. But first she wanted to stop here and take a look at the land. She`d probably never climb as high again.
"Wait for a moment, I want to see where we are going to live"
"Down there" Iluq said smiling and pointed towards a grove.
One winter ago Iluq had courted her. Their parents had already approved of the match and she knew that there was no way for her to refuse. Iluq was neither the most handsome nor the best hunter in the fjord. But they were the least related couple and that counted for a lot. [1] It had been more or less decided on the day she had been born, but anyway she let Iluq spend time trying to convince her.
He had told her about the lands beyond the mountains. Just like her grandfather had found this land they too should find their own land. And he had seen it on a whale hunt one year ago. A great cave, ideal home and shelter.
Anyone who had a good cave was lucky. There were those who still built igloos in the winter but most had either started making permanent huts out of trees or bolstered up small caverns using wood and skin. She had been raised in one of the richest caves in the fjord and would never accept living in a crumbling hut or a snowhouse.
"There, in that small forest is cave big enough for two families. Later on we might invite your sister and her husband to live together with us. But first we have to settle here for one winter."
Mauja sighed and wondered how he had managed to convince her of moving. He didn`t even own his own Kayak so they had to cross the mountains on foot. He had dogs, but that would only increase the amount of meat they`d need. She wondered whether this would ever work out.
OOC:
[1]OTL inuits were very careful of inbreeding.
Mauja smiled when they reached the peak of the mountain. Finally!
The baby had been sleeping on her back the whole time but it had still been quite a trial to cross the mountains. She didn`t complain, she was after all the grand-daughter of Ataneq who had first climbed these mountains.
"It is going to be easier from now on" her husband Iluq promised her.
Obviously going down would be a lot easier. But first she wanted to stop here and take a look at the land. She`d probably never climb as high again.
"Wait for a moment, I want to see where we are going to live"
"Down there" Iluq said smiling and pointed towards a grove.
One winter ago Iluq had courted her. Their parents had already approved of the match and she knew that there was no way for her to refuse. Iluq was neither the most handsome nor the best hunter in the fjord. But they were the least related couple and that counted for a lot. [1] It had been more or less decided on the day she had been born, but anyway she let Iluq spend time trying to convince her.
He had told her about the lands beyond the mountains. Just like her grandfather had found this land they too should find their own land. And he had seen it on a whale hunt one year ago. A great cave, ideal home and shelter.
Anyone who had a good cave was lucky. There were those who still built igloos in the winter but most had either started making permanent huts out of trees or bolstered up small caverns using wood and skin. She had been raised in one of the richest caves in the fjord and would never accept living in a crumbling hut or a snowhouse.
"There, in that small forest is cave big enough for two families. Later on we might invite your sister and her husband to live together with us. But first we have to settle here for one winter."
Mauja sighed and wondered how he had managed to convince her of moving. He didn`t even own his own Kayak so they had to cross the mountains on foot. He had dogs, but that would only increase the amount of meat they`d need. She wondered whether this would ever work out.
OOC:
[1]OTL inuits were very careful of inbreeding.
Yeah, you are technically right. I tried to change the thread name even but figured it didn`t really matter in the end.
And I have disappoint anyone who has hopes for an american invasion of Europe
But I`ve been wondering how I should do this TL. Completely void of Butterflies or with butterflies. Because let`s face it, the impact of Iceland on world history isn`t really huge. I`m not going to change the viking age just because dozen more norwegians settle in Scotland or Ireland instead. But I suppose it could change the excact date of when people discover America.
But that just complicates things. I`d have to write, or at least mention how the world is developing. So I`ve decided to focus on Thule for the time being and not changing anything grand politically. But maybe mess a little with the culture.Shakespeare: Henry V
nice updates - you could always have one or two men going back to greenland to trade and attempt to lure more people back to iceland
From A concise history of Thule:
Archeologists have uncovered many tools and boneheaps from the western fjords of Thule. Those reveal to us that the Sadlermiut culture sustained itself mostly on fish and as time passed occasionally on bird meat. Auks became a part of their diet along with ptarmigan. By the middle of the fifth century or early 6th century drastic lifestyle changes had occurred.
Primitive houses out birch and stone started appearing with fireplaces often nearby. (In the first century of settlement fireplaces were not kept indoors, instead the walls were covered with skins to keep inhabitants warm, with oil lamps used for lighting.) The bones found near these fireplaces show us that not only the diet changed, but also methods of cooking. Birdmeat and whalemeat was grilled slowly over fire, fish were boiled in a mix with native plants. As time passed not only berries became part of the diet but also native mushrooms and herbs.
We have no proof that the Sadlermiut went out of the northwestern part of Thule in the 5th century. It should not be surprising, for the population was still rather low and they could easily sustain themselves in that area. First clues of settlement outside of the western fjords are found in the bay of Inuvik.
It is proabable that a whalehunting kayak mission may have discovered that Inuvik was very suitable for both fishing and whale hunting. In any case the islands on the bay were very suitable for the Sadlermiut. The islands may have lacked forests so housing materials had to be brought from elsewhere, but the bay was rich with life. Archeological digging show that the diet of the Inuvik settlers could add shellfish, lobsters and nutritious seaweed to it`s diet. Indeed, the very ingredients that make Thulean cooking famous all over the world today.
Archeologists have uncovered many tools and boneheaps from the western fjords of Thule. Those reveal to us that the Sadlermiut culture sustained itself mostly on fish and as time passed occasionally on bird meat. Auks became a part of their diet along with ptarmigan. By the middle of the fifth century or early 6th century drastic lifestyle changes had occurred.
Primitive houses out birch and stone started appearing with fireplaces often nearby. (In the first century of settlement fireplaces were not kept indoors, instead the walls were covered with skins to keep inhabitants warm, with oil lamps used for lighting.) The bones found near these fireplaces show us that not only the diet changed, but also methods of cooking. Birdmeat and whalemeat was grilled slowly over fire, fish were boiled in a mix with native plants. As time passed not only berries became part of the diet but also native mushrooms and herbs.
We have no proof that the Sadlermiut went out of the northwestern part of Thule in the 5th century. It should not be surprising, for the population was still rather low and they could easily sustain themselves in that area. First clues of settlement outside of the western fjords are found in the bay of Inuvik.
It is proabable that a whalehunting kayak mission may have discovered that Inuvik was very suitable for both fishing and whale hunting. In any case the islands on the bay were very suitable for the Sadlermiut. The islands may have lacked forests so housing materials had to be brought from elsewhere, but the bay was rich with life. Archeological digging show that the diet of the Inuvik settlers could add shellfish, lobsters and nutritious seaweed to it`s diet. Indeed, the very ingredients that make Thulean cooking famous all over the world today.
9.
Mauja sighed.
What a hopeless husband she had. For days they had been cooking seaweed and seashells, and the fish he brought were ugly and tiny.
She had to admit he had been right about the cave. After bolstering it up and constructing a passage it was ideal and would indeed be the envy of any other hunter`s wife. If there were any other people here she could boast to.
Iluq spent the evenings decorating the cave by cutting animal shapes into the sticks and bones he had found. She remembered how he had impressed her originally by giving her the animals he had carved. If he could only catch the animals he was so good at carving she thought to herself.
It will get better she tried to assure herself. But she wouldn`t have cared at all if she`d never have to eat shellfish and seaweed again.
Mauja sighed.
What a hopeless husband she had. For days they had been cooking seaweed and seashells, and the fish he brought were ugly and tiny.
She had to admit he had been right about the cave. After bolstering it up and constructing a passage it was ideal and would indeed be the envy of any other hunter`s wife. If there were any other people here she could boast to.
Iluq spent the evenings decorating the cave by cutting animal shapes into the sticks and bones he had found. She remembered how he had impressed her originally by giving her the animals he had carved. If he could only catch the animals he was so good at carving she thought to herself.
It will get better she tried to assure herself. But she wouldn`t have cared at all if she`d never have to eat shellfish and seaweed again.
I´m really happy to see all these people already subscribing
There hasn´t that much happened yet. And I´ve yet to decide many things, feel free to not only criticize but also suggestion. I do however intend to make this a rather modest TL. (I.e. I might change the world a lot, but never the focus of the TL, I think it´s a good idea, mostly because I don´t have as good geographical knowledge of places outside of Iceland, a flaw that hindered me when I wrote a very typical Vinland TL).
A sidenote on the bay of Inuvik. My great great grandfather came from an island there and I read his father´s autobiography once. That´s of course in the 19th century so the society has gone from being farmers and fishermen merely providing for themselves and not doing any trading, to being specialized fishermen selling all their catch abroad. But, as described his youth and society before 19th century, there were quite many people living on such small islands. Up to 50-60 per island, with 5 inhabited. Since the islands were too small to keep sheep or do any meaningful agriculture it was based on fishing. The population limit on the bay, and the subsequent bays might be a few thousand if I´m very optimistic. Of course Iceland exports a lot of fish today, but that is done with modern technology and boats that can sail quite far from land, which you can´t really do on Kayak. Sure, people crossed from Canada to Greenland, but they wouldn´t do it on a daily basis I´d think. And individual kayakers can haul in fish, but not as much as bigger ships.
I´m not sure if birchtrees would do any good in shipbuilding either. But it´s a thought at least. I´m interested in what people would guess would be the population limit. OTL Icelanders never went above 80-90,000 I think, and even with potatoes and sheep. (When I say 90,000, I don´t mean now when food can be imported and exported... Of course you could do that with medieval tech, Icelanders sold the hanseatic league tons of fish but that´s a different story). Above 90,000 and you have famine. (Under that you have famine as well from time to time). How does 40,000 sound for a society that uses fishing and hunting to survive? (It´s a big island and a big sea).
There hasn´t that much happened yet. And I´ve yet to decide many things, feel free to not only criticize but also suggestion. I do however intend to make this a rather modest TL. (I.e. I might change the world a lot, but never the focus of the TL, I think it´s a good idea, mostly because I don´t have as good geographical knowledge of places outside of Iceland, a flaw that hindered me when I wrote a very typical Vinland TL).
A sidenote on the bay of Inuvik. My great great grandfather came from an island there and I read his father´s autobiography once. That´s of course in the 19th century so the society has gone from being farmers and fishermen merely providing for themselves and not doing any trading, to being specialized fishermen selling all their catch abroad. But, as described his youth and society before 19th century, there were quite many people living on such small islands. Up to 50-60 per island, with 5 inhabited. Since the islands were too small to keep sheep or do any meaningful agriculture it was based on fishing. The population limit on the bay, and the subsequent bays might be a few thousand if I´m very optimistic. Of course Iceland exports a lot of fish today, but that is done with modern technology and boats that can sail quite far from land, which you can´t really do on Kayak. Sure, people crossed from Canada to Greenland, but they wouldn´t do it on a daily basis I´d think. And individual kayakers can haul in fish, but not as much as bigger ships.
I´m not sure if birchtrees would do any good in shipbuilding either. But it´s a thought at least. I´m interested in what people would guess would be the population limit. OTL Icelanders never went above 80-90,000 I think, and even with potatoes and sheep. (When I say 90,000, I don´t mean now when food can be imported and exported... Of course you could do that with medieval tech, Icelanders sold the hanseatic league tons of fish but that´s a different story). Above 90,000 and you have famine. (Under that you have famine as well from time to time). How does 40,000 sound for a society that uses fishing and hunting to survive? (It´s a big island and a big sea).
that sounds too high for a pre-farming society in iceland... i'd say 10,000 as an absolute max, based on the isolation and type of terrain the island contains...
A concise history of Thule
After succesfully settling the bay of Inuvik the Sadlermiut culture spread further south and east, and eventually covered the whole island with spread settlements. All around the island there were auks, fishing, seals, walrusses and similar plants.
It is difficult to imagine the initial reactions to volcanic eruptions. Thule is on the mid atlantic ocean ridge making it one of the most active volcanic hotspot in the world. While the northwestern part is relatively free from volcanoes the southern part and midnorthern parts are not. A total of 300 volcanoes are on the island with an eruption every five years on average. These eruptions have had some impact on world history even, the Eldborg eruption of 1783 caused famines as far as in Japan, and in recent memory there is the ash cloud of Qikcikkitaluuq (Kikkitalukka in germanic Thulean) that disrupted airtraffic and made life miserable for journalists concerned with spelling.
In the 6th and early 7th century there were no major eruptions but the tradition of mountain worshipping must surely have originated in that era. In the year 2010 geologists collecting samples near Qikcikkitaluuq uncovered what seemed to be offerings. The geologists had been digging to examine layers of ash when they stumbled onto early 7th century wooden bowls and Sadlermiut carvings, which had been buried with offerings of food. Such findings are very rare in the southern corner of Thule since the acidic nature of the soil is not ideal for preserving objects. Ironically the custom now is mostly preserved in the western part of Thule where natives still make offerings to sacred mountains certain times of the year. But any traces of such offerings are scarce in those areas until 12th century when norse settlements were beginning to push the natives further and further north.
After succesfully settling the bay of Inuvik the Sadlermiut culture spread further south and east, and eventually covered the whole island with spread settlements. All around the island there were auks, fishing, seals, walrusses and similar plants.
It is difficult to imagine the initial reactions to volcanic eruptions. Thule is on the mid atlantic ocean ridge making it one of the most active volcanic hotspot in the world. While the northwestern part is relatively free from volcanoes the southern part and midnorthern parts are not. A total of 300 volcanoes are on the island with an eruption every five years on average. These eruptions have had some impact on world history even, the Eldborg eruption of 1783 caused famines as far as in Japan, and in recent memory there is the ash cloud of Qikcikkitaluuq (Kikkitalukka in germanic Thulean) that disrupted airtraffic and made life miserable for journalists concerned with spelling.
In the 6th and early 7th century there were no major eruptions but the tradition of mountain worshipping must surely have originated in that era. In the year 2010 geologists collecting samples near Qikcikkitaluuq uncovered what seemed to be offerings. The geologists had been digging to examine layers of ash when they stumbled onto early 7th century wooden bowls and Sadlermiut carvings, which had been buried with offerings of food. Such findings are very rare in the southern corner of Thule since the acidic nature of the soil is not ideal for preserving objects. Ironically the custom now is mostly preserved in the western part of Thule where natives still make offerings to sacred mountains certain times of the year. But any traces of such offerings are scarce in those areas until 12th century when norse settlements were beginning to push the natives further and further north.
9.
"Across the bay of Inuvik there is the mountain Ulanairsigut. An impressive sight in both clear and stormy weathers. My grandmother Mauja told me many stories about it. She told me I should always respect it. The old man in the mountain hears the prayers of the people living under it and if in times of need he will come down.
You don´t believe me. The old man was here before we came here. Old Mauja was the first one to settle here. She came with her husband Iluq and their son. He died while hunting and she lived an entire winter on her own before other settlers came. It was a tough winter but Mauja was tougher. Her son didn´t live though.
People said she had become weird after living so long on her own. Maybe so, she liked talking to herself a lot. And imagining things. She told people she could talk to rocks, but she was no angakok.
She was 30 winters old and still had not remarried when my grandfather Aliq came to the settlement. He was not very liked. Rumour was that he had pushed his own brother of a cliff during a fight. I don´t know if it´s true.
He didn´t get along with others very well but he and Mauja seemed to understand each other. They were among the first to move to the islands and then they moved across the sea and settled under old man Ulanairsigut. They had seven children, three of whom lived. And then several grandchildren like me.
The further south we move, the mountains get more alive my grandmother told me. I would never have believed it until I saw the smoke rising in the distance. The old men and women of the mountains like to burn things. Their land is the inner land where there is no sea nor food to find. It is a dangerous place and dangerous.
Maybe they don´t like having us here.
But old man Ulainairsigut is peaceful. Or maybe just biding his time.
Old man Ulanairsigut
Settlement of Thule at the beginning of the 700s.
OOC:
Ulanairsigut is sort of similar to old man in greenlandic inuit. I´m basing my names on that language although the Dorset culture was of course not the same. Since they are related, and it´s a long time ago, and there is a different development from OTL I´m gonna use poetic licence a little bit and improvise. It will be based on something but it won´t be linguistically accurate.
The mountain mentioned is OTL snæfellsjökull, mostly known from journey to the center of the earth.
"Across the bay of Inuvik there is the mountain Ulanairsigut. An impressive sight in both clear and stormy weathers. My grandmother Mauja told me many stories about it. She told me I should always respect it. The old man in the mountain hears the prayers of the people living under it and if in times of need he will come down.
You don´t believe me. The old man was here before we came here. Old Mauja was the first one to settle here. She came with her husband Iluq and their son. He died while hunting and she lived an entire winter on her own before other settlers came. It was a tough winter but Mauja was tougher. Her son didn´t live though.
People said she had become weird after living so long on her own. Maybe so, she liked talking to herself a lot. And imagining things. She told people she could talk to rocks, but she was no angakok.
She was 30 winters old and still had not remarried when my grandfather Aliq came to the settlement. He was not very liked. Rumour was that he had pushed his own brother of a cliff during a fight. I don´t know if it´s true.
He didn´t get along with others very well but he and Mauja seemed to understand each other. They were among the first to move to the islands and then they moved across the sea and settled under old man Ulanairsigut. They had seven children, three of whom lived. And then several grandchildren like me.
The further south we move, the mountains get more alive my grandmother told me. I would never have believed it until I saw the smoke rising in the distance. The old men and women of the mountains like to burn things. Their land is the inner land where there is no sea nor food to find. It is a dangerous place and dangerous.
Maybe they don´t like having us here.
But old man Ulainairsigut is peaceful. Or maybe just biding his time.
Old man Ulanairsigut
Settlement of Thule at the beginning of the 700s.
OOC:
Ulanairsigut is sort of similar to old man in greenlandic inuit. I´m basing my names on that language although the Dorset culture was of course not the same. Since they are related, and it´s a long time ago, and there is a different development from OTL I´m gonna use poetic licence a little bit and improvise. It will be based on something but it won´t be linguistically accurate.
The mountain mentioned is OTL snæfellsjökull, mostly known from journey to the center of the earth.
Excellent Idea!
I have started a Rough Timeline of a successful Brythonic Revolt aganist the Romans