Reverse the outcome of the USSR and the PRC

archaeogeek

Banned
Yunnan: 62% Han
Qinghai: 54.5% Han
Guanxi: 62% Han

Depends how early you look.
Also I'll note that Bielorussians and Ukrainians used to be Russians, too (White and Little Russians respectively; I mean Bielorussians are still white russians since that's what the name means, and they didn't exactly have "a long history of nationalism", more like a long history of being in the shadows of the poles, lithuanians and russians, with Ukrainian nationalism being fairly recent, partially a reaction to polish nationalism, and until the 20th century their last independent polity was basically an Ukrainian-ruled Russia) - I'm not so sure "Han" can't be broken up if need be, even if it would probably hard. It only takes a generation or two and good propaganda, add in ideological incompatibility and international borders established either de jure or de facto - that's in the best of cases that is.
 
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Would east asia (Laos, North Korea, Veitnam) remain communist until the present day?
I doubt a Chinese collapse would affect Vietnam and Laos that much. The Vietnamese and Chinese communists did not like each other much and Vietnam was aligned with the USSR.

North Korea is another matter.
 
I doubt a Chinese collapse would affect Vietnam and Laos that much. The Vietnamese and Chinese communists did not like each other much and Vietnam was aligned with the USSR.

North Korea is another matter.
I agree, mostly. Korea would also be unaffected. And they still share a border with their Soviet "allies". The DRV and DPRK were always Russia's allies first, and had tense relations with the PRC at the best of times. Given the opening up of the USSR however, North Korea will probably still end up as isolated as it is now, but the regime would not change, even if just like OTL it isn't at all communist either officially or in practice. Vietnam would also remain communist. What I'm curious about are countries like Laos and Cambodia.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
China had an advantage over the USSR in that its massive pool of cheap labor allowed it to produce cheap products that the West wanted to import. The USSR would not be able to do anything like that. It does have oil and natural gas, but the West can get that from other parts of the world.
 
Ok... So if China balkanises, who the hell is going to get that permanent seat on the UNSC?

I almost thought you meant the UNSC from Halo:p

I could see the free seat going to india or brazil, mabye the most powerful of the chinese factions, or mabye the next most powerful european country
 

Maur

Banned
Depends how early you look.
Also I'll note that Bielorussians and Ukrainians used to be Russians, too (White and Little Russians respectively; I mean Bielorussians are still white russians since that's what the name means, and they didn't exactly have "a long history of nationalism", more like a long history of being in the shadows of the poles, lithuanians and russians, with Ukrainian nationalism being fairly recent, partially a reaction to polish nationalism, and until the 20th century their last independent polity was basically an Ukrainian-ruled Russia) - I'm not so sure "Han" can't be broken up if need be, even if it would probably hard. It only takes a generation or two and good propaganda, add in ideological incompatibility and international borders established either de jure or de facto - that's in the best of cases that is.
In English, yes, but not in slavic languages (and that's what matters, after all). Doesn't change the fact that they don't have much of a state tradition (but then there is the fact that GDL was mostly Belorusin state...). Ukrainians have Sich, though, that's pretty cool history (i'm biased, though. I think their haircuts and that area folk music is totally awesome)
 

Maur

Banned
:confused:Hunh!?!? "B(y)elorus" doesn't mean anything in English - whereas it specifically DOES mean White Russia in slavic languages - specifically Belorussian and Russian
Ah, yes, forgot about first part :D


I meant the second one, of course. How to explain it... geez, it's such a clusterfuck, and even worse because in russian it's sometimes called differently and sometimes it uses rather encompassing and ambiguous "rossiya"

Oh well. In short, Belarus is how would "White Germania" be called - note that it's not the same as "White Germany", which would be Byelorussia (and which was the name of the country until 1991).
 
I mean I know technically they're all han but some warlords and a bit of propaganda could probably lead to situations like Austria-Germany, Portugal-Spain or disunited Scandinavia

Well... not this one.

Unlike Großdeutschland and Scandinavia, Portugal and Spain have always had a different language (Galician-derived Portuguese and Castillan-derived Spanish), clear and undisputed sovereignty over different "core" territories (Austria was once a part of Germany, several parts of Germany later fell under Austrian influence or control, and Germany was theoretically ruled by Habsburgs until Napoleonic Wars) etc.

As for the USSR not falling, i believe that Trotszky would have paved the way for a Soviet Union socially and economically better than Stalin's autocracy, even though it would still be an unfree state for Western standars, while for China the way for really balkanizing would be after Mao or during Deng.
 
because without Brezhnev the eastern europe would be lost in 1968.

Why? A ruthless reformist leader can be a less repressive at home at home whilst still clampng down on the WarPac, you also assume the Soviets are the major factor when quite a few of the WarPac regimes could stand on their own pretty much, so long as the U.S.S.R simply exists.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Well... not this one.

Unlike Großdeutschland and Scandinavia, Portugal and Spain have always had a different language (Galician-derived Portuguese and Castillan-derived Spanish), clear and undisputed sovereignty over different "core" territories (Austria was once a part of Germany, several parts of Germany later fell under Austrian influence or control, and Germany was theoretically ruled by Habsburgs until Napoleonic Wars) etc.

As for the USSR not falling, i believe that Trotszky would have paved the way for a Soviet Union socially and economically better than Stalin's autocracy, even though it would still be an unfree state for Western standars, while for China the way for really balkanizing would be after Mao or during Deng.

Portugal, like Castille, is ultimately a rebellious province of Leon ;)
 
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