Reverse Cold War 2.0

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Pragmatic Progressive

WotanArgead said:
Germany, due to late unification, was an archaic and patriarchal country. While France was centralized. Plus, the Catholic Church played the role of a unification factor before the Revolution, while Germany is still religiously divided.
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I think this is somewhat simplistic regardng Germany, though I do see why French National Collectivism would rather go ultramontanist/fundamentalist Catholic. I still think that some people flirting around with the Cult of the Supreme Being and/or Neo-Roman polytheism or Neo-Druidism remains plausible - Nazism in OTL also wasn't Neo-Paganist, but somewhere between secular and pseudo-Christian.
I did indeed build on ultramonatanist fundamentalist Catholicism as a (but not the single) pillar of fascism ITTL - and later as an analogue to Islamism.
 
WotanArgead

WotanArgead

Pragmatic Progressive said:
What would you call a dictatorship which is worse than just authoritarian?
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I don't do this, because the difference here is purely quantitative. In addition, practice shows that repression peaks under leader dictatorships (which is usually considered a feature of authoritarian regimes), while when the state is ruled by the Party, the level of repression is lower. Actually, the division into authoritarian and totalitarian regimes arose only in order to separate "our sons of bitches" from "not our sons of bitches."
Pragmatic Progressive said:
I still think that some people flirting around with the Cult of the Supreme Being and/or Neo-Roman polytheism or Neo-Druidism remains plausible - Nazism in OTL also wasn't Neo-Paganist,
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One or two people occupying not very important posts, and without an organization of supporters. Before the Second World War, there were no significant neo-pagan organizations in France - unlike Germany and Austria.
 
Assumptions about the world
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    • Pragmatic Progressive

    WIP:
    In General
    General assumptions about this world in comparison to OTL​
    In general, I think:

    • This world is economically significantly more prosperous and even somewhat more advanced technologically. I imagine TTLs tech level to be around OTL 2027-29, depending on the sector. This has mainly got to do with West, Central and East Africa being significantly more stable and much more prosperous.
    • Most abject poverty, including starvation, has been eliminated and starvation is by now in nearly all cases caused by natural disasters (drought, flooding, plant diseases or pests). Access to technological infrastructure like electricity, sanitation and the Internet is more universal ITTL.
    • This world is, purely economically, significantly more equal than OTL. The economic disparities aren't as big as in OTL, though they remain large and developed as well as developing countries exist. However, very few countries ITTL would count as least developed in OTL. Again, this is mostly due to West, Central, East and even South Africa being more stable and more prosperous than OTL. There also are poorer regions ITTL than in OTL, notably North America west of the Mississippi (and partly even east of it) and some parts of Latin America.
    • However, this world is somewhat more socially conservative than OTL. Even democracies have remained socially more conservative, last but not least starting with Russia still being a rather conservative society. Even most democratic nations have strong conservative nationalist parties. And although most of them are by now civic nationalist, ethno-nationalist parties do gain some votes in most countries and are the strongest conservative parties in some, with quite a few nations claiming old territories (although these days, only far-right parties take such claims seriously).
      • A notable exception to this is the Middle East and many majority-Muslim nations. While there still are very much conservative Islamic nations like Algeria, Azaouad or Noth Sudan, nations like Persia and Libya rank among TTLs democracies and are among the freeer countries of this world. Some majority-Muslim dictatorships like Arabia or North Yemen are strictly secular, if not state atheist, left-wing dictatorships which explicitly try to reverse and drive out socially conservative norms and mores. However, these nations can be socially conservative in another way...
    • In the same vein, same-sex civil unions are only recognised in a few nations of Europe and North America. In 2021, Epekwit'k became only the fourth nation worldwide to legalise and recognise same-sex marriage. While homosexual activity is no longer criminalised or deemed pathological in most nations, many don't recognise it and quite a few countries impose stiff fines or prison sentences against at least public homosexuality. In several countries, mostly in Central and South America, homosexual activity carries the death penalty.
    • Seemingly contradictory to the above point, this world is actually somewhat less religious and a little more rational than OTL. This especially applies to the Japanosphere. While only the remaining communist and syndicalist nations are state atheist, there are more than in OTL. Additionally, most meritocracies following the Japanese model - while they don't usually care whether one is religious or not and which religion is practised and don't actively suppress or oppress any religion - are overwhelmingly secular in nature (only in a few of them, notably Aksum and Anyanya, are religious "experts" like bishops or theologists represented in the councils) and usually have a scientist/technocratic leaning. Religion is practiced by an overwhelming majority of the population in meritocracies, too, however it does not play a significant part in state politics and institutions. Another reason for this world being less religious than OTL is that not only conservative and political forms of Islam are unpopular, but several majority-Muslim states, among them Arabia and Qatar, are at least de jure state atheist or strictly secular.
    • A global lingua franca does not exist to the extent English takes this role in OTL. Regional languages are much more important although most educated people worldwide know at least some German, Russian and/or Japanese. Regional linguae francae(?) though are used to a greater extent: Most people of Southern Africa speak at least some English and some Portuguese, while most Europeans are taught German and/or Russian as a second language. In all meritocracies, Japanese serves as a lingua franca. English however is limited to most of North America, Britain, Southern Africa and Australasia - and to an extent the Indian Subcontinent, however, Japanese or Russian is quickly overtaking English there...
     
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    • lionjedi1215

    A thing that I've assumed, is that Neo-Popunats (TTL's version of Neo-Nazis) are much more common, but are still reviled by everyone (as they should be) due to Popunat France being responsible for the Réhabilitation (TTL's version of the Holocaust).
     

    Pragmatic Progressive

    lionjedi1215 said:
    A thing that I've assumed, is that Neo-Popunats (TTL's version of Neo-Nazis) are much more common, but are still reviled by everyone (as they should be) due to Popunat France being responsible for the Réhabilitation (TTL's version of the Holocaust).
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    Why Réhabilitation instead of Holocaust? Otherwise, I can agree: Neo-National Collectivists (I think this is a better name than "PopuNat" etc.) would be significantly more common and banned in only a few nations... and by far not as reviled as they should be!
     
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    lionjedi1215

    Pragmatic Progressive said:
    Why Réhabilitation instead of Holocaust? Otherwise, I can agree: Neo-National Collectivists (I think this is a better name than "PopuNat" etc.) would be significantly more common and banned in only a few nations...
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    Because I like to imagine that Brazier said and eventually thought that he would "rehabilitate" France's national spirit by removing people he considered inferior.
     

    Pragmatic Progressive

    lionjedi1215 said:
    Because I like to imagine that Brazier said and eventually thought that he would "rehabilitate" France's national spirit by removing people he considered inferior.
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    Interesting and very plausible, though I still like to think Réhabilitation would only be used by deniers, revisionists and Neo-NatCol propaganda in the modern day and more appropriate terms would be used scientifically.
     
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    Germany
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    • Pragmatic Progressive

    WIP!
    "Von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an den Belt -
    Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt!"
    (part of the first stanza of TTLs official German national anthem, the full three stanzas of the Deutschlandlied)

    Ein später Platz an der Sonne -
    A belated "place under the sun"
    ​
    Common Name:Germany, United Republic of Germany
    Official name: United Republic of Germany
    Capital:1917-1941: Berlin
    1941-1946: Berlin (Frankish occupation zone), Posen (Polish occupation zone),
    de jure Berlin, de facto Füssen (Füssen Regime)
    de jure Berlin, de facto Königsberg (Free Germany/Königsberg Government)
    1946-...: Berlin
    Form of Government:1871-1918: semi-constitutional imperial monarchy
    1918-1920: democratic parliamentary republic (in near-civil war/civil unrest and widespread chaos)
    1920-1922: military junta government
    1922-...: democratic semi-presidential federal republic
    1941-1946: partly occupied by the Frankish Realm and Poland/collaborationist fascist/National Collectivist regime in Füssen
    List of Heads of State:1918-1920: Friedrich Ebert
    1920-1925: Wolfgang Kapp
    1925-1928: Paul von Hindenburg (died in office)
    1928-1939: Friedrich Wilhelm Freiherr von Willisen
    1939-1953: Gottfried Treviranus
    1953-1960: Ernst Thälmann
    1960-1965: Konrad Adenauer (died in office)
    1965-1974: Friedrich August von Hayek
    1974-1981: Heinz Pose
    1981-1995: Reinhard Ziehm
    1995-2009: Thorsten Fischer
    2009-2016: Tharanthan Sajinth Rosenbaum
    2016-2030: Gerhard Baier
    List of Heads of Government:1918-1920: Gustav Bauer (in chaos and near-civil war)
    1920-1922: Walther von Lüttwitz (Regierung Nationaler Einheit und Erneuerung - "Government of National Unity and Renewal", a military junta)
    1922-1928: Wilhelm Cuno
    1928-1934: Gottfried Treviranus
    1934-1940: Ernst Scholz
    1940-1947: Manfred von Richthofen
    1947-1955: Kurt Schumacher (died in office)
    1955-1960: Heinrich Drake
    1960-1966: Manfred von Richthofen (Füssen Government 1941-1946: Adolf Hitler)
    1963-1969: Hans Gramm
    1969-1973: Erwin Schoettle (died in office)
    1973: Peter Bassenge (interim)
    1973-1979: Annemarie Renger
    1979-1985: Peter Bassenge
    1985-2000: Jens Krüger
    2000-2005: Vinzenz Schuster
    2005-2015: Ezekias Kiriakou
    2015-...: Daniel Krüger
    Religion:Most Germans, though relatively secular, belong to either the Catholic Church or the Lutheran (Protestant) Church. The latter actually has a (rather slim) majority over the former as 37,2 % are Catholics and 40,7 % are Protestants.
    The largest religious minority with 6,4 % are Jews, closely followed by 4,4 % Hindus and 4,1 % Greek Orthodox Christians (mostly on Crete and Cyprus). With 1,8 %, Muslims are a smaller minority than OTL.
    Most religions and denominations which exist globally have at least some membership in Germany. Depending on the poll, up to 64 % of Germans call themselves "secular" or "irreligious", but only few (1,4 %) are outright atheist.
    Economy:
    Freedom and democracy:
    History:

    ​
     
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  • Index
    • Arbeiterrepublik
  • Index

    • lionjedi1215

    Arbeiterrepublik: A Reverse Cold War Kaiserreich replacement

    Ideologies:
    Societalism: TTL's version of Totalism, with more of an emphasis on racial purity
    Revolutionary Populism: A blanket term for the pro-Internationale revolutionary socialists as Russia and Germany are very different in terms of ideology
    Libertarianism: Anarchists and LibSocs go here, as well as revolutionary socialists that aren't Internationale-aligned, necessarily
    Social Democratic: Same as KR
    Social Liberalism: Same as KR
    Market Liberalism: Same as KR
    Conservative Democratic: TTL's name for Social Conservatism
    Authoritarian Democratic: Same as KR
    Paternal Autocracy: Same as KR, but with more Military Dictatorships
    Popular Revanchism: TTL's name for National Populism

    Internationale:
    German Worker's Republic (Revolutionary Populist)
    Hungarian Council Republic (Societalism)
    Slovakian People's State (Societalism)
    Union of Russia (Revolutionary Populist)

    Entente:
    French National Republic (Authoritarian Democracy)
    Kingdom of Italy (Conservative Democracy)
    Spanish State (Authoritarian Democracy)
    Portuguese Kingdom (Paternal Autocracy)
    Swiss Confederation (Social Liberalism)
    Austrian Federal State (Popular Revanchism)

    Commonwealth:
    United Kingdom (Social Democracy)
    Irish Free State (Social Liberalism)
    Dominion of Canada (Conservative Democracy)
    Australasian Confederation (Authoritarian Democracy)
    Dominion of India (Paternal Autocracy)

    Intermarium:
    Polish Free State (Paternal Autocracy)
    Ukrainian State (Paternal Autocracy)
    Prussian National State (Popular Revanchism)
    Baltic Union (Authoritarian Democracy)

    Other Great Powers:
    American Union State (Popular Revanchism)
    Japanese Empire (Conservative Democracy)
    Chinese Federal Republic (Social Democracy)

    Other Interesting Countries:
    Kingdom of Sweden (Social Democratic)
    Finnish Republic (Paternal Autocracy)
    Norwegian National State (Popular Revanchism)
    Danish Empire (Authoritarian Democracy)
    Kingdom of Yugoslavia (Paternal Autoracy)
    Greek Imperial State (Popular Revanchism)
    Tsardom of Bulgaria (Authoritarian Democracy)
     
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  • Index

    • Pragmatic Progressive

    Just now, I got an idea which would lead to a significant map change and a new nation in Europe: What do you think about the Republic of Venice being resurrected, including the Ionian Islands, Crete and Cyprus? It would of course be allied to Russia and Germany. I think this is at least marginally more plausible than Germany keeping Crete and Cyprus... Germany would thus get South Tyrol (and I might give Zanzibar to Germany, too)...

    Venice as a close ally would massively help Germany project power into the Mediterranean (together with direct German control over Gibraltar, Ceuta and Melilla) - and thus worldwide.

    EDIT: I got the idea when I saw a map of Venice possessing Crete and Cyprus on Wikipedia - despite this being the case over 350 years ago for Crete and over 500 years ago for Cyprus...
     
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    Pragmatic Progressive

    What do others think?

    I think global population ITTL would be higher than IOTL. I would go with a number of 8.944 billion for now.

    A List of countries by population should probably start like this (only exact to a million, we can still discuss these numbers):


    1. North China (New Han China): 726,000,000
    2. South China (Union of China): 659,000,000
    3. State of Bharat: 438,000,000
    4. East African Union: 397,000,000
    5. Federal State of Russia: 338,000,000
    6. State of Bengal: 295,000,000
    7. Nusantara: 277,000,000
    8. Pakistan: 246,000,000
    9. Japan: 223,000,000
    10. Aksum: 174,000,000
    11. Phillippines: 141,000,000
    12. Germany: 128,000,000
    13. Union of Brazil: 114,000,000
     
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    lionjedi1215

    I was looking at the leaders list for Germany, I don't know what I was expecting, but it was not Hitler being in charge of the Füssen Regime
     
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