Results of a Theodore Roosevelt Presidency (1913 - 1921)

I will openly say this is for a Darkest Hour Mod that I am in the midst of drafting, a counter to Kaiserreich as it were, though being more plausible. :p

Now, the main POD would be Theodore Roosevelt and Hiram Johnson successfully being elected on the Republican ticket, having narrowly managed to take over the Republican National Convention. There is some talk of putting forth a Conservative ticket, but the grand majority simply endorse Champ Clark when he wins the Democratic Presidential Nomination. Roosevelt, as the title should specify, wins.

A secondary POD I had decided to place was that Roosevelt, having avoided the South American Expedition, quite literally lives ten years longer, the ten years he himself says the Amazon had claimed (this is just one of those butterflies that keeps going beyond reason; sorry).

Alright, now for the Main Questions:

  • How would Roosevelt have handled the Mexican Revolution?
    • I figured the United States would have a larger military, and Roosevelt would have deployed a much larger force to attempt to capture Pancho Villa; however a side-effect of this would be open conflict with Carrancistas, and soon by extension, the Carranza National Government. Mexico is a stable Democracy, but largely a satellite of the US by 1936, and Chihuahua, Sonora, and the Baja Peninsula have been annexed as territories with some minor partisan activity.
  • When would Roosevelt have entered World War I?
    • This one is tricky given I know that Roosevelt have been harping for war since January of 1915, but Congress wanted nothing to do with it. Hiram Johnson actually would later resign as Vice President sometime in 1916, with John Weeks replacing him in that election. For the time being, I have the capture of a German military mission in Mexico, along with various documents and weapons sometime in late 1916, as the tipping point.
  • How would Roosevelt have handled the Treaty of Versailles (and Others)?
    • This I have little to no clue on.
      • At the present, I imagined the result being the Rhineland separated from Germany, Wilsonian Armenia (only due to Roosevelt accepting a clause, put forth by Lloyd George, that placed Aremnia under US protection for a period of 10 years), German Samoa granted to the United States, an Independent Kurdistan, Greece (Post-Sevres) and others.
I would need to work out this period first before going any further, but I do have a general idea of what I am workings towards. Any thoughts are welcome.
 
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Another fellow modder-to-be out here. :D
I've also pondered the idea of US intervention to Mexican Revolution - and IMO an outcome where the US not only outright annexes even more Mexican territories or "makes the country a stable democracy by 1936" seems highly unlikely. Historical examples where intervention and occupation have brought long-lasting stability along them, especially when they are clearly aimed on turning the new government into a mere puppet regime, are scarce.

Sure, the US could take the Philippine route and simply keep on shooting until large-scale resistance would be squashed, but that kind of attitude would be unpopular back home and create massive resentment against the US among the locals. Combine this to the aforementioned annexations, and boy-oh-boy, those Mexicans would truly love their northern neighbours.
 
I highly doubt that Hughes and TR would be on the same ticket thanks to the 12th amendment. They are both from New York so it would have been impossible. I also doubt that TR would have lived another decade as he said himself many times before the Amazon expedition that he would live until 60. Lastly TR winning might have prevented WWI or at least delayed it for a time.Lest we forget the Russo Japanese war of 1904-05.
 
Another fellow modder-to-be out here. :D
I've also pondered the idea of US intervention to Mexican Revolution - and IMO an outcome where the US not only outright annexes even more Mexican territories or "makes the country a stable democracy by 1936" seems highly unlikely. Historical examples where intervention and occupation have brought long-lasting stability along them, especially when they are clearly aimed on turning the new government into a mere puppet regime, are scarce.

Sure, the US could take the Philippine route and simply keep on shooting until large-scale resistance would be squashed, but that kind of attitude would be unpopular back home and create massive resentment against the US among the locals. Combine this to the aforementioned annexations, and boy-oh-boy, those Mexicans would truly love their northern neighbors.
I should rephrase that; Mexico isn't a puppet state per se, but is required to keep certain guarantees regarding American businesses within its borders, which will have since dominated the national economy. As for territory, Baja was the only one I was set on; Sonora and Chihuahua were more to promote conflict, but I can remove them.
 
I highly doubt that Hughes and TR would be on the same ticket thanks to the 12th amendment. They are both from New York so it would have been impossible. I also doubt that TR would have lived another decade as he said himself many times before the Amazon expedition that he would live until 60. Lastly TR winning might have prevented WWI or at least delayed it for a time.Lest we forget the Russo Japanese war of 1904-05.
Damn it, your right on Hughes. :eek:

Switch it to John W. Weeks of Massachusetts.

And no, I am set on WW1 happening, as otherwise the Mod will be quite boring, or at the very least I will have even less of a platform to work from.
 
I highly doubt that Hughes and TR would be on the same ticket thanks to the 12th amendment. They are both from New York so it would have been impossible. I also doubt that TR would have lived another decade as he said himself many times before the Amazon expedition that he would live until 60. Lastly TR winning might have prevented WWI or at least delayed it for a time.Lest we forget the Russo Japanese war of 1904-05.

Hughes was on the supreme court at the time. Did he even live in New York in any more? Even if he did, it wouldn't be that hard to have his residency in D.C. declared his primary one. Politicians do this stuff all the time. It's 1912, not 1812. Nobody would care that they're both really from New York.

How could the U.S. possibly maintain a protectorate in Armenia? :confused:

Sonora, Chihuahua and Baja have what, 6-700k people? Well within U.S. power to keep a lid on resistance in such a territory.
 
Damn it, your right on Hughes. :eek:

Switch it to John W. Weeks of Massachusetts.



Well, at least that's legal, but it's still rather unlikely. When was the last time you got a ticket of two northeasterners?

Having beaten Taft for the nomination, TR's priority #1 is to get as amny Taft people as possible back on board. So the running mate will be a Taft man, almost certainly from the Midwest. Warren Harding of Ohio?


 
Hughes was on the supreme court at the time. Did he even live in New York in any more? Even if he did, it wouldn't be that hard to have his residency in D.C. declared his primary one. Politicians do this stuff all the time. It's 1912, not 1812. Nobody would care that they're both really from New York.
Look towards the bottom.
How could the U.S. possibly maintain a protectorate in Armenia? :confused:
Since the United States was more prepared for war, they were able to deploy a small contingent to the Middle East to aid the British; these same troops were later deployed to Eastern Anatolia to help form the Armenian military. The Americans left in 1921 (some months after William MacAdoo's inauguration) but the Armenians were able to hold their own.

I'll also point out that Kemal is dead, and so the Turkish partisans are splintered for a much longer period of time, but still potent.
Sonora, Chihuahua and Baja have what, 6-700k people? Well within U.S. power to keep a lid on resistance in such a territory.
I dropped everything but Baja; it wasn't originally a war to gain territory, and Baja serves a security purpose while being relatively depopulated.
You might want to consider these musings on an "ideal" dismemberment of Turkey.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=253396
It took me 90 minutes to put this damn thing together so it better be worth it. :p
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The Turks were originally contained to Central Anatolia, but as the partisan movements unified, they were able to exert ever more pressure upon the forces of the Entente and Armenia. Quickly tiring of efforts to force themselves upon these lands (the Americans least of all, having within months withdrawn from their mandate along the Black Sea Coast to that of the Bosphorous, which was supported by the British), a peace treaty was signed in 1923 which recognized all the borders as they existed on the map above, minus the Bosphorous.

The Bosphorous, including the city of Istanbul, was to be subject to a plebiscite by region on whether to join with Greece or Turkey. The vote proved controversial when virtually every region chose to unite with Greece, hundreds of thousands of resident Turks having fled East deeper into Anatolia, and having been replaced by Greek refugees from the East and settlers from the West. Cooler heads prevailed preventing a reinitialization of the war, but the issue has been on the forefront of Turkish policy ever since.

Istanbul (now Constantinople) is new seat of government for the Greek Empire.

Well, at least that's legal, but it's still rather unlikely. When was the last time you got a ticket of two northeasterners?

Having beaten Taft for the nomination, TR's priority #1 is to get as amny Taft people as possible back on board. So the running mate will be a Taft man, almost certainly from the Midwest. Warren Harding of Ohio?
Henry Cabot Lodge will be Roosevelt's Vice President; he actually convinces Roosevelt to take a position more similar to that of France regarding Germany's treatment in the Treaty of Versailles, though the League of Nations is stillborn.
 
Henry Cabot Lodge will be Roosevelt's Vice President;

What on earth for? If the Republicans have to worry about Massachusetts, they are toast anyway.

With TR (a New Yorker) to appeal to the Northeast, the VP will need to be from the Midwest. Almost certainly it'll be Fairbanks or Harding.
 
What on earth for? If the Republicans have to worry about Massachusetts, they are toast anyway.

With TR (a New Yorker) to appeal to the Northeast, the VP will need to be from the Midwest. Almost certainly it'll be Fairbanks or Harding.
Alright we'll go with Fairbanks; the VP is not that important to this discussion anyway since they will never be all that prominent within the MOD.
 
Another fellow modder-to-be out here. :D
I've also pondered the idea of US intervention to Mexican Revolution - and IMO an outcome where the US not only outright annexes even more Mexican territories or "makes the country a stable democracy by 1936" seems highly unlikely. Historical examples where intervention and occupation have brought long-lasting stability along them, especially when they are clearly aimed on turning the new government into a mere puppet regime, are scarce.

Sure, the US could take the Philippine route and simply keep on shooting until large-scale resistance would be squashed, but that kind of attitude would be unpopular back home and create massive resentment against the US among the locals. Combine this to the aforementioned annexations, and boy-oh-boy, those Mexicans would truly love their northern neighbours.
Not to mention that this would be taking place simultaneously with the Great War in Europe. What have we learned about fighting two wars at once over the last decade, people?
 
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