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Request Maps/Flags/Coats of Arms/Heraldry here, II
- Thread starter Pragmatic Progressive
- Start date
It just struck me recently that there does not seem to be a non-Republican, non-Royalist national flag of France along the lines of St George's cross for England and the Saltire of Scotland; having done a spot of research, there does not seem to be any 'official' national flag for the French PEOPLE (as opposed to the French State), although a white cross on dark blue was suggested on one flag website that I visited.
My own idea is actually inspired by the FOR WANT OF A NAIL setting, which left me with the impression of a non-Republican, non-Royalist, non-denominational but not secular State having governed France at some point (one thinks of it as 'L'Etat de France' or 'L'Etat Francaise'); my mental image of a flag for this state was inspired by the regimental flags of Louis XIVs infantry, with their tendency to use a white cross to divide coloured quarters.
As an 'allohistorical allusion' I settled on a white cross splitting a bi-coloured field (left = blue, right = red) into quarters; this means that the upper & lower left quarters would be blue, while the upper & lower right quarters would be red (which actually goes against the spirit of the old flags, which tended to have one colour in the upper left & lower right quarter, another in the upper right & lower left quarter; this is actually a good thing as it helps distinguish the Flag of the French State from that of the Dominican Republic!).
May I please ask the experts if they think this works? Thank You in advance for your consideration!
My own idea is actually inspired by the FOR WANT OF A NAIL setting, which left me with the impression of a non-Republican, non-Royalist, non-denominational but not secular State having governed France at some point (one thinks of it as 'L'Etat de France' or 'L'Etat Francaise'); my mental image of a flag for this state was inspired by the regimental flags of Louis XIVs infantry, with their tendency to use a white cross to divide coloured quarters.
As an 'allohistorical allusion' I settled on a white cross splitting a bi-coloured field (left = blue, right = red) into quarters; this means that the upper & lower left quarters would be blue, while the upper & lower right quarters would be red (which actually goes against the spirit of the old flags, which tended to have one colour in the upper left & lower right quarter, another in the upper right & lower left quarter; this is actually a good thing as it helps distinguish the Flag of the French State from that of the Dominican Republic!).
May I please ask the experts if they think this works? Thank You in advance for your consideration!
That was the naval ensign meant to be used by french merchant ships under the ancient regime. It is a "civilian" in the sense that it was not used by army ships but at the same time, it has been used by ships owned or chartered by the government and a lot of merchant company are known to have disregarded this regulation and flown the national flag instead (white with a semy of gold fleur-de-lys).
l'État Français was the official name of collaborationist france under Maréchal Pétain during WW2 so they might not be the best name to echo unless the type of regime you're thinking of actually is a bit on the fascistic side.
As an 'allohistorical allusion' I settled on a white cross splitting a bi-coloured field (left = blue, right = red) into quarters; this means that the upper & lower left quarters would be blue, while the upper & lower right quarters would be red (which actually goes against the spirit of the old flags, which tended to have one colour in the upper left & lower right quarter, another in the upper right & lower left quarter; this is actually a good thing as it helps distinguish the Flag of the French State from that of the Dominican Republic!).
May I please ask the experts if they think this works? Thank You in advance for your consideration!
I think any flag using the white cross would be perceived as somehow royalist by french people in general. Some modern french monarchists even uses such design.
One alternate separation of the field used OTL was the naval ensign of the Forces Navales Françaises Libres (french sailors who continued to fight the axis after the armistice). Remove the cross of lorraine and either leave it bare or replace it with another symbol it could probably work as an alternate "neutral"-looking french flag.
Thank you SO much; really appreciate it! Google was giving me no help!
Quite so! Thank You very kindly for making my mental image a true vision Philip (or in the circumstances, should that be Philippe?).
Thank You most kindly for clarifying this; a day when you learn something new is always a more interesting day than it might have been.
Another perfectly harmless idea completely spoiled by association with Fascists - I'll throw it on the pile with toothbrush moustaches, armbands and Hugo Boss in black!
An excellent idea - thank you very kindly, M. Pasquin.
Here's a random challenge for anybody interested.
A coat of arms for a monarchist USA under the Lincoln dynasty.
A coat of arms for a monarchist USA under the Lincoln dynasty.
Maybe just move the text a bit otherwise "e plur unum" is gibberish
@Tiro a bit late to the party but I echo Marc, the white cross was more civilian but in France it's associated with monarchism (in New France however...). As an aside it's interesting that France and England swapped crosses at some point!
And I agree the lozenge flag appears to be the best alternative.
Although, for some reason I have this in my head (the circle should bear some symbol)
And I agree the lozenge flag appears to be the best alternative.
Although, for some reason I have this in my head (the circle should bear some symbol)
french wartime national mueseum
i went there personally on a school trip
Is it possible you might have seen the francisque with the 2 ears of wheat used on the coins of the era ?
maybe not the wheat but the wings i saw closely resemble some sort of leaf maybe maple?
could have been oak leaves, they were used as part of the emblem of the 3rd republic anyway (the ones at the left). Do you remember the name of the museum in french, I'd be curious to see any prototypes they have.
