Representatives for US Canada in 1787

General Zod

Banned
If Quebec and Nova Scotia (let's ignore Saint Jean's Island and Newfoundland, they were so sparcely populated that they would get the minimum anyway) had taken the side of the 13 Colonies in 1775, how many representatives they would have been awarded before the first census, in 1787 ?

I already have a source from another guy's TL (Big Tex's Ameriwank), and I trust his work, but it has been criticized, so I wished to get another opinion, and some hard numbers references about the demographics of North America in 1787, if at all possible.

I need to settle the issue in order to complete my "optimized Ameriwank Constitution" work.
 
Both only get 1 Representative. I had to work this out for my unfinished TL "State of Nova Scotia". I don't remember my sources, but I know Nova Scotia had a population of just about 750,000 and Quebec (I removed the loyalist settlers from the count) had somewhere around 1,000,000.
 

General Zod

Banned
Both only get 1 Representative. I had to work this out for my unfinished TL "State of Nova Scotia". I don't remember my sources, but I know Nova Scotia had a population of just about 750,000 and Quebec (I removed the loyalist settlers from the count) had somewhere around 1,000,000.

In comparison to which numbers for the 13 Colonies ??
 
Zod,

Additionally, I think you might get away with picking numbers that "seem reasonable" for Quebec and Nova Scotia (I'm probably contradicting my earlier discussion here), because even the Framers didn't have a certain knowledge of the population at the time, since an initial census hadn't been performed.

I'd be surprised if you had more than 2 for NS and more than 4 for Quebec, but it depends on what you count in Quebec.
 

General Zod

Banned
Well, I resigned myself to the inevitable and got my lazy bum ass to do some research. Those bloody Loyalists confuse everything, and it is quite likely that many Acadians would return their homeland once the British that evicted them are kicked out, so roughly Quebec ought to have 90,000-100,000 people and Nova Scotia (SJI included) about 12,000-20,000. According to the population estimates criteria the Framers used, this should mean three representatives for Quebec (as many as Georgia and New Hampshire) and one for Nova Scotia. I'm only uncertain whether to let the Framers overestimate a bit and let them give Quebec four, as many as New Jersey, all the much to prop them against the English colonies a bit. Maybe the war displaces some people north, or most Acadians resettle here.

I also realized that most probably Nova Scotia and SJI should enter the Confederation, and later the Union, as one state, even if the Britsh had split them in 1769. The numbers are tiny. Undivided NS had one-fourth the population of Rhode Island. Likewise, without a border, Maine and New Brunswick stay one state.
 
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without a border, Maine and New Brunswick stay one state.
There was a lot of Intense, hard negotiations ongoing from 1776-1781 about the States western land Claims. If Nova Scotia is included, this would probably include Massachusetts claims to Maine and NS claims to New Brunswick*
There would have been a south border drawn and Maine/NB would have been included in the NW Ordinance, till new states were organized.

And if Quebec were included this would have included Quebec's claims around the Great Lakes.

* I know there was no New Brunswick [named for King Georges Birth town] but whe under stand the area in Question.
 

General Zod

Banned
There was a lot of Intense, hard negotiations ongoing from 1776-1781 about the States western land Claims. If Nova Scotia is included, this would probably include Massachusetts claims to Maine and NS claims to New Brunswick*

Indeed. And probably both sets of claims get negotiated away and the Maine/NB area is set up as independent state(s).

There would have been a south border drawn and Maine/NB would have been included in the NW Ordinance, till new states were organized.

And what's your opinion ? Do they become one state, or two ? I'd be of the opinion that without a border, they become one state, named... Maine ? Acadia ?

And if Quebec were included this would have included Quebec's claims around the Great Lakes.

They get probably negotiated away like the original 13 states' claims on Kentucky and Tennessee.
 
Based on some info from the Constitutional Convention, Virginia had around 800,000 people. Don't know how much that helps...
 
Well, I resigned myself to the inevitable and got my lazy bum ass to do some research. Those bloody Loyalists confuse everything, and it is quite likely that many Acadians would return their homeland once the British that evicted them are kicked out, so roughly Quebec ought to have 90,000-100,000 people and Nova Scotia (SJI included) about 12,000-20,000. According to the population estimates criteria the Framers used, this should mean three representatives for Quebec (as many as Georgia and New Hampshire) and one for Nova Scotia. I'm only uncertain whether to let the Framers overestimate a bit and let them give Quebec four, as many as New Jersey, all the much to prop them against the English colonies a bit. Maybe the war displaces some people north, or most Acadians resettle here.

I also realized that most probably Nova Scotia and SJI should enter the Confederation, and later the Union, as one state, even if the Britsh had split them in 1769. The numbers are tiny. Undivided NS had one-fourth the population of Rhode Island. Likewise, without a border, Maine and New Brunswick stay one state.

From http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/QuebecHistory/readings/quepop.htm
  • [FONT=arial, helvetica]1763 estimated population of the Province was around 70,000; all were French speaking.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=arial, helvetica]1774 population estimates are around 100,000 to 120,000; all but 2,000-4,000 are French[/FONT]
  • [FONT=arial, helvetica]1800 the population is estimated at 220,000 with 25,000 to 30,000 English speakers.[/FONT]
This is a touch higher than your numbers, but that's the right ballpark.
 
I also realized that most probably Nova Scotia and SJI should enter the Confederation, and later the Union, as one state, even if the Britsh had split them in 1769. The numbers are tiny. Undivided NS had one-fourth the population of Rhode Island. Likewise, without a border, Maine and New Brunswick stay one state.

Err... Why would PEI (=SJI) be ADDED to Nova Scotia, and what became New Brunswick (OTL in 1784) be REMOVED? ???


or was "Maine and New Brunswick stay one state" a typo for "Nova Scotia and New Brunswick stay one state"???


Mind you, I agree that SJI would indeed be folded into NS.
 

General Zod

Banned
Well, as far as I know, if Massachussets and NS are going to be in the same federal political entity, they are going to have conflicting territorial claims on the same Maine/New Brunswick area. That's why I assume that area eventually gets separated from both and set up as its own state. And yes, I highly doubt they would ever get separated if USA encompasses Canada.

As it concerns SJI, I just assume that it gets reincorporated in NS after the Revolution, since it's going to have a ridiculously low population, far below any decent standard to qualify as a state of its own. As it stands, NS is going to be the least populated original state of the Union by far, 1/4 of the next lowest (Rhode Island).
 
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