Stilwell seems to have been a capable commander of regular ground troops, at least up to corps level. You just didn't want him having anything to do with relations with foreign powers or foreign armies.
Slim, of course, was first rate all around.
Remember the Texas! The United States in World War II (an alternate history)
- Thread starter galveston bay
- Start date
Stilwell seems to have been a capable commander of regular ground troops, at least up to corps level. You just didn't want him having anything to do with relations with foreign powers or foreign armies.
Slim, of course, was first rate all around.
I doubt if anyone could have brought Chiang Kai-Shek around to the view of aggressively fighting the Japanese for the benefit of the western Allies. He wanted to bide his time until Japan's defeat and build his forces to fight his real enemy Mao. IT really was a pretty sensible strategy from his point of view. Among other things he sensed that colonialism was coming to an end. Had he defeated Mao he would have become the great national liberation leader supporting independence for the colonies.
I hope I did not create the impression that I thought it was possible to do so, with some other senior officer.
It's just that Stilwell, while a fine line officer, was a poor diplomat. He managed to go out of his way to p*** off the Brits, too.
I understand why he got the gig - the list of highly respected senior generals who could speak Chinese was so short that you could count 'em with fingers left over. But Roosevelt waited too long to pull the plug.
good news folks, started professional employment again in April and I have finished the time and energy draining training cycle. I have been working on notes for this timeline and have come back to it. Plans to continue are in the works.
I have done a lot of reading on shipping availability the last few months and there will be some modifications however for where and how fast Allied units are sent places post June 1941, so a retcon will happen although nothing too major.
Some of you who know who he is will be happy to know the General JC Lee is going to Persia to handle US Lend Lease to the Soviet Union and all that goes with it. Thus preventing him from taking every hotel in Paris when the Allies liberate it later in the war.
I have done a lot of reading on shipping availability the last few months and there will be some modifications however for where and how fast Allied units are sent places post June 1941, so a retcon will happen although nothing too major.
Some of you who know who he is will be happy to know the General JC Lee is going to Persia to handle US Lend Lease to the Soviet Union and all that goes with it. Thus preventing him from taking every hotel in Paris when the Allies liberate it later in the war.
Excited to hear things are going well and you are getting back into it!
Wedermeyer could have had a fighting chance. He knew how to keep the Generalissimo feeling appreciated and therefore on side as the brits say.
Hey, the British shit all over their allies too, so they don't get to complain.
That said, I do agree he was a terrible choice to do anything diplomatic. The fact people called him Vinegar Joe should have been a hint to Roosevelt that it was a bad idea.
Guess everyone will have to reread this story to catch back up. It’s really been half a year already?
Hey, sometimes rereading a story you read months or even years ago can be enjoyable. Who says you can only read a book once?
Multiple 👍 for new employment position, successful completion of training cycle that came with the new posting, and, of course, the potential return of this T/L.
RETCONS
The Philippines does not get a Army National Guard Division, not enough shipping and political interference. it has to settle for an infantry regiment from the Canal Zone (which is replaced by an NG Infantry Division) but does get a group of transport aircraft that arrive in Australia soon after the balloon goes up in the Pacific. Looking over what the British would have been doing with their fleet after November and nearly finished with what the Indian, Australian and New Zealand militaries have been up to since the US entered the war in June 1941
Reading some of the early chapters over, I am impressed the U.S.N. did not protest more strongly when ordered to shift nine battleships from the Pacific to the Atlantic, for one simple reason.
That was all the battleships they had there.
In 1941, the U.S. Navy had five Battleship Divisions (BATDIV) in total, each consisting of three battleships. Four of these divisions contained the "Standard" battleships, while the fifth, BATDIV 5, contained the older build New York sisters and Arkansas, lead ship of her class and historically IOTL the oldest American battleship to serve as such in both World Wars.
BATDIV 5 had until recently been the only one of these five in the Atlantic Fleet, and was held to be a reserve and training force, but to aid in the Neutrality Patrols as the situation in Europe got worse, BATDIV 3 had been brought over to the Atlantic via the Panama Canal, bringing all three of the New Mexico-class battleships, leaving the three Colorado-, and two each of the Tennessee-, Pennsylvania-, and Nevada-class battleships.
You may notice, that's nine battleships, at a time when the primacy of battleships in naval warfare has not yet been fully recognized as shifting to aircraft carriers, and Roosevelt has just ordered all of them redeployed.
Now that Texas has been lost, I could see the historic drive to bring the turrets and guns for Wyoming out of storage to rearm her as a battleship actually having success, if only to bring BATDIV 5 back up to strength.
IOTL the drive failed largely due to the loss of Utah as an AA training ship. That has yet to happen here.
That was all the battleships they had there.
In 1941, the U.S. Navy had five Battleship Divisions (BATDIV) in total, each consisting of three battleships. Four of these divisions contained the "Standard" battleships, while the fifth, BATDIV 5, contained the older build New York sisters and Arkansas, lead ship of her class and historically IOTL the oldest American battleship to serve as such in both World Wars.
BATDIV 5 had until recently been the only one of these five in the Atlantic Fleet, and was held to be a reserve and training force, but to aid in the Neutrality Patrols as the situation in Europe got worse, BATDIV 3 had been brought over to the Atlantic via the Panama Canal, bringing all three of the New Mexico-class battleships, leaving the three Colorado-, and two each of the Tennessee-, Pennsylvania-, and Nevada-class battleships.
You may notice, that's nine battleships, at a time when the primacy of battleships in naval warfare has not yet been fully recognized as shifting to aircraft carriers, and Roosevelt has just ordered all of them redeployed.
Now that Texas has been lost, I could see the historic drive to bring the turrets and guns for Wyoming out of storage to rearm her as a battleship actually having success, if only to bring BATDIV 5 back up to strength.
IOTL the drive failed largely due to the loss of Utah as an AA training ship. That has yet to happen here.
Last edited:
mostly a political move, and meant as a short term boost to British morale and a show of solidarity until troops and aircraft can start crossing the Atlantic in force. The Allies also underestimated just how much air power the Germans would throw at them. (Roundup 1942 is now a dead issue). Losses were heavier than expected. Losses were 2 BB (both after heavy damage from air attack with a submarine finishing off one of the cripples) and another knocked out of the battle by a submarine early on, with most of the rest taking serious damage from bomb hits. Operation Chariot will be viewed as an expensive victory, but thanks more to the RN and air power killing the German twins and the Prinz Eugen than anything the American battleships really did. Pounding the Normandie dock with shellfire was not worth the price of a battleship (the Oklahoma) while the Standards were supposed to catch the German fleet in port and shell it (like at Mers-el-Keber). That attempt failed (becuase the Germans dashed out first, thanks to their code breaking) and all that Kimmel really accomplished was to act as a diversion for the real killers of the Kriegsmarine... RN destroyers, MTBs and lots of air power from the USN and RAF Coastal Command. In effect trading 2 US standards for 2 Kriegsnmarine BC and 1 CA is a painful way to fight a war. However the result of locking the 2 Bismark class, 2 remaining pocket battleships and 1 remaining heavy cruiser permanently in the Baltic Sea is well worth the cost. Even if it is a self inflicted wound by Hitler
With that illustrative lesson, rearming the Wyoming is a pointless endeavour as far as the USN is concerned. Its too slow and too vulnerable to torpedo damage. I will be addressing British and American plans for their capital ships in the next update, which should be next couple of days. Also coming is a big update on what the British, ANZAC, Indian and Canadian Armies are doing and the RAF, RAAF, and RCAF will be doing (and their smaller RNZAF and new Indian AIr Force siblings).
Assume history continues unchanged on the Russian Front in 1941 into 1942. It won't be until Spring before the full butterflies affect Hitlers strategic thinking. The Wehrmacht was supposed to win in 1941 so he could focus his full attention on the Anglo-Americans in 1942 and that didn't work out.
It should be noted that every available US submarine that isn't being used for training or fitting out is in the Pacific, which is supposed to have some deterrent effect (after all FDR went to war because of a Uboat attack). The battleships were supposed to return by the spring of 1942 which is when the Americans assumed the Japanese would be ready to strike (which is historical... until momentum suddenly accelerated historically and in TTL)
Last edited:
Just saw this over on Reddit, and I thought it belonged here. Because it's the Texas, and it's just an amazing photo.
Texas National Guard P-51 Mustangs flying over battleship USS Texas off the coast of Texas, 1948.
Texas National Guard P-51 Mustangs flying over battleship USS Texas off the coast of Texas, 1948.
Also speaking of Texas, she has a drydock selected and a date for moving there (second quarter '22)!
"LA PORTE— The Battleship Texas Foundation (BTF) has selected Gulf Copper & Manufacturing Corporation’s Galveston shipyard as the location for the repair of the Battleship Texas. With the support of the Battleship Texas Foundation and Valkor Energy Services (BTF’s project management and engineering firm for the ship repair), Gulf Copper recently acquired a floating drydock capable of lifting the Battleship Texas out of the water for necessary and extensive hull repairs.
Gulf Copper’s new drydock acquisition is a critical milestone in Battleship Texas’s $35 million hull repair project. Gulf Copper’s new drydock makes their Galveston shipyard viable for the Battleship Texas hull repair. In addition, the location of the yard in Galveston significantly reduces the risk of towing the Battleship to drydock since the tow is both in sheltered waters and the distance is much shorter than other potential options. The project group including the BTF, the operator of the Battleship Texas, Valkor, and the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD), the ship’s owner, has worked carefully to mitigate the risks to the ship throughout the entire project.
The Battleship Texas is projected to enter Gulf Copper’s new Galveston drydock in the second quarter of 2022 after the dry dock is made ready for the battleship.
Since the ship closed to the public in August 2019, BTF, TPWD, and Valkor have worked to prepare the ship for the shipyard. As one of one the preparation activities, Resolve Marine Group was contracted in 2020 to prepare the ship for tow by BTF and Valkor. BTF, Resolve, and Valkor worked for six months to drastically reduce the amount of water leaking into the Battleship Texas. By installing over 750,000 gallons of expanded foam, this team reduced the leak rate from 2,000 gallons per minute to under 20 gallons per minute, making the ship significantly safer to tow.
The Battleship Texas Foundation operates the Battleship Texas under a 99-year memorandum of understanding from TPWD who owns the battleship. In 2019, the Texas legislature passed SB1511 directing TPWD to enter a 99-year lease with a qualified nonprofit to operate the ship. In the same session, the legislature appropriated $35 million to fund the hull repair of Battleship Texas.
The Battleship Texas Foundation would like to thank its partners – Valkor Energy Services, Resolve Marine Group, TPWD, and Gulf Copper & Manufacturing Corporation – for achieving this milestone in the long-term survival of Battleship Texas." (email from the Battleship Texas Foundation)
I can't wait... I live right on the water and she will go by within easy viewing when she is towed from State Park to the Galveston shipyard. I am about a mile from Morgans Point and get a great view of shipping traffic. Years ago, in 1988, I worked at an office in Galveston and our meeting room had a view of the Todd Shipyard dock when she got her last refit.
Last edited:
Shouldn't it be only one Bismarck class battleship as the original Bismarck was lost before the pod?